Election Year or Fear!

[Andy_Faber]

Cue tirades against the lies told surrounding the consequences of Brexit of course only by one side, the appalling right wing media (but the left were perfectly OK) and so on!! It was a fix, waah waah, Im going to tell Mummy.

Does the ?right wing media? include BBC, currently in the doggy doo not only for underplaying Israeli casualties in the current conflict but also for what to my ears is one of the most crass bits of cut and paste I?ve ever heard, El Trumpo?s Jan6 speech? I?m sure I?ve mentioned broadcast media manipulating the masses before, maybe not.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Probably wouldn't include the BBC who seem to be much more focussed on trying to underplay 11 attempted murders on a train in Huntingdon as a minor kerfuffle just now

[SithHappens]

He did pardon all the rioters though didn't he? Surely an act no one can support or excuse.

So agree BBC shouldn't be editing his speeches. But he certainly is not a victim here.

[swaledale]

swale "His main theme was that the country was basically ****ed. Largely because of Brexit. Odd then that he seems to have memory of being the main architect behind the Brexit vote. Of course he claims, that had he been involved he would have done it all differently. Deregulated everything and never traded with the EU ever again...."

But isnt that what you've been saying for the last 5 years? Now when he says it you deride him. Cant win can he!

IMHO If we had stayed in we would likely be better off economically today (but its hard to know for sure) and there is an argument that if we had done a full Brexit properly we MIGHT have been better off, but again who can tell - apart from you!

Problem was that they fudged it, didnt have the conviction to go the whole hog and the bodge left us with all the downside and none of the potential upside. So in a way he's right - if one was to go down the Brexit path (and the majority mandated it) - then do it properly, rather than trying to get everyone somewhat satisfied and actually getting noone satisfied.

I really wonder sometimes if you actually think about what your saying?

Yes I'm deriding him for saying the country is ****ed because of Brexit, because HE was a prime mover behind Brexit and acts as if it had nothing to do with him!! The guy is a hypocrite and a charlatan.

Its a myth to say Brexit was fudged, what would the whole hog have been then? What would leaving the EU "properly" mean? Farage certainly didn't explain or set out what he meant when spreading his lies during the referendum, so how the **** is he right?

Neither is it hard to be sure that the UK would be better off economically if it hadn't left the EU, there is masses of evidence that demonstrates quite clearly the economic hit that Brexit caused.

Its a fact to say that the deal negotiated by Johnson's government was a bad one, its a fact that instead of focussing on getting the best deal possible, the Government basically adopted a stance of being anti EU as an ideology.

My main beef, was as the vote was that close and as there had been no specifics about what leaving the EU actually meant, the UK should ahve left but remained in the single market/customs union, a Norway style arrangement. There was no mandate for completely isolating the Uk from its main trading partner.

Going back to the mandate, yes its true a small majority voted for Brexit, haven't yet met anyone who can given a reasoned explanation as to why or what they voted for. I was talking to a friend not so long ago, who excused the Tories inability to govern on the basis that the Uk wasn't used to governing itself, having been "run" by the EU!

I explained very gently that this was tosh, that the EU didn't govern or run anything in the UK, but that the UK in certain circumstances had agreed a common set of rules (many of which were created and put forward by the UK as it happens) that it agreed to comply with, much like one does if one joins a club. He wasn't having it, so in the face of such ignorance I just smiled and gave up.

[swaledale]

Cue tirades against the lies told surrounding the consequences of Brexit of course only by one side, the appalling right wing media (but the left were perfectly OK) and so on!! It was a fix, waah waah, Im going to tell Mummy.

Actually its not a left wing or a right wing issue - one of the reasons Corbyn was useless was because he was actually in favour of Brexit, as were many trade unions whilst there were (until Johnson purged them from the party) numerous Tory politicians and supporters who didn't favour Brexit.

Yes there were lies told by both sides during the campaign, though the big ones such as the ?350 million paid to the EU, which was actually half that after rebates, the idea pushed by Farage and others that Turkey was about to join and there would be thousands of Turks migrating into the UK soon, being just the obvious ones.

It was badly handled by cocky Cameron who thought it would be an easy way to silence the euro sceptics the Tory party and who didn't set up the referendum properly, so that there would be a minimum threshold for it to go through, but a simple majority.

There was no clear explanation as to what leaving the EU would mean, the Leave side certainly had no vision or plan for Brexit, lets face it Johnson only joined leave because he thought that would be best for his political career, he didn't believe in it, doubt if he even knew what the consequences would be. and the remain side didn't believe they would lose.

In any case, as with all these things, the average person was fooled and suffers the consequences, many just made hay whilst the sun shined and haven't suffered the consequences. In fact for me it was a plus in many ways, but it was an economic disaster for the country and has impacted negatively in many ways, often indirectly.

Did Mummy comfort you by the way?

[Andy_Faber]

He did pardon all the rioters though didn't he? Surely an act no one can support or excuse.

So agree BBC shouldn't be editing his speeches. But he certainly is not a victim here.

I'd say slightly different, he WAS innocent re the speech but yes, subsequently pardoning the rioters was a bad move

What's not in doubt is that you and I are amongst millions who are paying the BBC to lie to us

[Geoff Parkstone]

"...that Turkey was about to join and there would be thousands of Turks migrating into the UK soon, being just the obvious ones."

Again he was sort of right, just that the migrants were generic Moslems rather than just Turks, and staying in might have helped stop it!

[SithHappens]

I'd say slightly different, he WAS innocent re the speech but yes, subsequently pardoning the rioters was a bad move

What's not in doubt is that you and I are amongst millions who are paying the BBC to lie to us

One wonders why the speech needed doctoring, he does a good enough job of making himself look like a dick with his speeches without any outside assistance

[Andy_Faber]

One wonders why the speech needed doctoring, he does a good enough job of making himself look like a dick with his speeches without any outside assistance

IMO because the producers had an agenda. Their opinion of Trump is probably the same as yours but they had/have the power/guile/opportunity to impose their opinion on The Masses byskewing the truth . I know Trump's actions have consequences on UK but personally I'm more bothered about issues directly caused by us that impact us

[SithHappens]

IMO because the producers had an agenda. Their opinion of Trump is probably the same as yours but they had/have the power/guile/opportunity to impose their opinion on The Masses byskewing the truth . I know Trump's actions have consequences on UK but personally I'm more bothered about issues directly caused by us that impact us

Interesting that their view on Trump nay be a negative one yet are so pro reform.