Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

IMO the choice should be there. If an individual decides to pursue a Bachelor Degree through a private institution, they will pay VAT on the fees. I think the same should be true for private schools (no idea why they were ever called public).

If you pay for a service, there's VAT to pay. Why should schools be any different?

Looking at it from a different perspective, just as Ammy would, I don't think Precious Peter from the rich household should get a leg up in the education and the rest of life stakes and Chavvy Charlie from Chad not get the same life chances and the possibility to "better" himself. Isn't the old adage "we are all born equal"? That wasn't true then, isn't now but, maybe, it should be.

But it’s utterly unattainable, MA. The ‘accident of birth’ factor sees to that. Even allowing for the fact that some are born in the Cotswolds and others in Moss Side, the Isle of Dogs or Gaza…some are born to brilliant and caring parents while others are dragged up by people who are unfit to parent and that is inescapable.

[Andy_Faber]

But it’s utterly unattainable, MA. The ‘accident of birth’ factor sees to that. Even allowing for the fact that some are born in the Cotswolds and others in Moss Side, the Isle of Dogs or Gaza…some are born to brilliant and caring parents while others are dragged up by people who are unfit to parent and that is inescapable.

For once rA you aren't being the biggest idealist the room, MA is. 'Accident Of Birth' is a big part of it and although I've seen good teachers on both sides of the paywall dragging kids up (and occasionally down) its IMO parenting that does most to influence outcomes of equally capable children. BUT there's more than one aspect to 'parenting' - a moral code yes, hours helping with homework yes, but also in some cases making the necessary sacrifices to put the kids into the magnificent environments you mentioned.

[ramAnag]

For once rA you aren't being the biggest idealist the room, MA is. 'Accident Of Birth' is a big part of it and although I've seen good teachers on both sides of the paywall dragging kids up (and occasionally down) its IMO parenting that does most to influence outcomes of equally capable children. BUT there's more than one aspect to 'parenting' - a moral code yes, hours helping with homework yes, but also in some cases making the necessary sacrifices to put the kids into the magnificent environments you mentioned.

Couldn’t agree more about the parenting part and as I’ve always maintained, there is no greater ‘gift’ than that of being brought up by good and decent parents.

As regards the ‘magnificent environments’, I think I was describing the fact that they are comparatively magnificently equipped. Having spent four years in one and visited others I’m not convinced they’re always ‘magnificent environments’ but the facilities they offer are superb.

On the sacrifice point. I’m sure that some parents make such a sacrifice, but the fact is that less than 10% of pupils attend our private ‘public’ schools. The fees are beyond the means of the vast majority, even allowing for the ‘sacrifice’ you speak of, and wouldn’t it be better to create a more level playing field offering much improved facilities and opportunities for the 90% plus?

[Geoff Parkstone]

And how much would Ms Reeves need to raise in extra taxes for that? OBR says 38% of GDP goes to the government in tax already (and they spend 44% of GDP), so fix this and NHS too and we'd likely be at around 50% ++. It would be "better" to have perfect facilities free to everyone across the public sector but GB Limited can't afford it. In fact I doubt any developed economy can.

Let's hope all our new doctors and engineers can help supercharge the economy to meet these aims, but sadly all this is just pie in the sky

[ramAnag]

And how much would Ms Reeves need to raise in extra taxes for that? OBR says 38% of GDP goes to the government in tax already (and they spend 44% of GDP), so fix this and NHS too and we'd likely be at around 50% ++. It would be "better" to have perfect facilities free to everyone across the public sector but GB Limited can't afford it. In fact I doubt any developed economy can.

Let's hope all our new doctors and engineers can help supercharge the economy to meet these aims, but sadly all this is just pie in the sky

You’re right of course and I acknowledge that, however you asked about the future of public schools (private education) and my response is that the current situation exemplifies the inequality to be found in the UK (and the US) today.
Money must be available, how else can such schools thrive with fees (per pupil) well in excess of the national average wage?
I don’t have the answer or the solution. Don’t even know if there is one. I’m just suggesting that, in the interest of fairness, it is unjustifiable for the wealthiest 7-8% to have access to such facilities while the vast majority have to make do and mend. It’s not a new situation but some of the facilities I’ve seen recently have reinforced my view of this particular inequity.

[Andy_Faber]

You’re right of course and I acknowledge that, however you asked about the future of public schools (private education) and my response is that the current situation exemplifies the inequality to be found in the UK (and the US) today.
Money must be available, how else can such schools thrive with fees (per pupil) well in excess of the national average wage?
I don’t have the answer or the solution. Don’t even know if there is one. I’m just suggesting that, in the interest of fairness, it is unjustifiable for the wealthiest 7-8% to have access to such facilities while the vast majority have to make do and mend. It’s not a new situation but some of the facilities I’ve seen recently have reinforced my view of this particular inequity.

What exactly do you mean 'money must be available'? Are you suggesting that private school fees would just be handed over to the state?

[ramAnag]

What exactly do you mean 'money must be available'? Are you suggesting that private school fees would just be handed over to the state?

Not at all. Odd conclusion. I’m just saying that the top 6-8% must have the ability to pay such fees at a time when the fees for each child are often in excess of the average annual salary.

I suppose the question then is, is it justifiable for a privileged elite in the country to have access to such essentials as better health care and better educational facilities? Doubt we’ll answer it definitively.