Election Year or Fear!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Manning’s TV performances were slightly toned down, Sith, although I think they were mainly on ITV. His performances elsewhere, especially in his own Empire Club, had a great deal of racist content and he admitted on TV to being a racist.

NF citing Alf Garnett was of course just stupid, on the basis that ‘Till Death Us Do Part’ and Alf’s whole character were just a (very funny imo) satirical parody based on and aimed at exactly the type of rightwing bigots who nowadays support Reform and Farage.

If I remember correctly almost all those Northern Club comedians owed their success to "-ism's" essentially thriving on a base of racism, homophobia and ***ism - plus a few mother in law jokes thrown in. I guess that was the northern working mens' clubs standard fodder back then. I cant say as I never went to any such establishment and I imagine that wghich was put out on ITV was likely a watered down version.

Alf, as you say, was a parody of the type of bigotry embodied in those northern working mens clubs.

But it makes me wonder. was it right wing bigotry back in the 70's since it seems to have its roots in an environment where, I would imagine, there was a predominantly labour voting audience: back when the core labour vote was the "working man", unlike now when it attracts a very different following. Its easy to assume bigotry is the domain of the right wing, but heres surely an example of core labour voter bigotry? or was it OK back then because it was said "in humour"? its perplexing

[Geoff Parkstone]

Disappointing response. This thread of discussion started with a post by you including off-the-mark opinions of myself, which I thought deserved a full response on all points. Maybe I should have just ignored you like GP did

Don?’t turn into rA 2.0

I didnt ignore the post AF, its just I could barely get on the system to post anything these past couple of days!! As it is I havent considered voting Reform but my go to party (Green who have received my X for the past 10 years or so) have changed dramatically under Polanski in a thinly disguised attempt to grab the left voters who have been abandoned by Starmer's version of labour, will no longer receive my support. So it will be screaming lord sutch or a spoiled paper for me

[SithHappens]

Disappointing response. This thread of discussion started with a post by you including off-the-mark opinions of myself, which I thought deserved a full response on all points. Maybe I should have just ignored you like GP did

Don’t turn into rA 2.0

I don't think its a stretch to think you or GP might consider voting reform based on your comments and defence of Farage on my time here.

You don't really have cause you take offence, especially when you failed to act on TTRS unfounded claims of my anti semitism previously, in fact even supported him during the discussion.

You only had to respond to say my view was wrong, and defend Farage should you choose but still have no idea what your riddles about polanski had to do with the discussion.

[ramAnag]

Says the King of Whataboutery. You?’ve spent a decade deflecting any point made contrary to your own view by offering ?‘yes but what about?’ - some subjects to extreme, I?’m sure you can recall

As ever AF you try to make your hurried point but offer either a) no evidence or b) very flawed evidence and then just resort to random accusations.

Tbh I have so many better things to do than enter into futile argument with you - even spending the last hour sorting my car insurance has proved a welcome break - but should you wish to continue then do please provide some evidence, then we’ll know what you’re talking about.

As for warning Sith about becoming ‘rA 2.0’, I well remember you pompously using the same sentiment warning me not to become ‘Swale 2.0’. I took absolutely no notice then and I suspect Sith won’t now. You may want to make sure you don’t turn into Farage 2.0. or even dictator Donald 2.0.

[Ram Pant]

I'm slowly becoming disgruntled at the childishness of some of the posts 1.0. My approach speed is gaining velocity rapidly.

Make a point, say why you think that way, provide sources, facts and leave the rest alone. If what you're posting is simply your opinion but you can't underpin it with verifiable fact, say so. That might (but I doubt it) stop all the to and fro posing seen in the last few pages of this thread.

Before anybody wastes time looking for examples I've posted that go against what I've just written, don't bother, I'm almost certainly guilty as charged. The point being I'm trying to avoid posting such crap and would greatly appreciate it is others followed suit.

[ramAnag]

If I remember correctly almost all those Northern Club comedians owed their success to "-ism's" essentially thriving on a base of racism, homophobia and ***ism - plus a few mother in law jokes thrown in. I guess that was the northern working mens' clubs standard fodder back then. I cant say as I never went to any such establishment and I imagine that wghich was put out on ITV was likely a watered down version.

Alf, as you say, was a parody of the type of bigotry embodied in those northern working mens clubs.

But it makes me wonder. was it right wing bigotry back in the 70's since it seems to have its roots in an environment where, I would imagine, there was a predominantly labour voting audience: back when the core labour vote was the "working man", unlike now when it attracts a very different following. Its easy to assume bigotry is the domain of the right wing, but heres surely an example of core labour voter bigotry? or was it OK back then because it was said "in humour"? its perplexing

I think you may misremember, GP.
Alf was a reactionary, white working class Londoner who held racist, ***ist, anti Labour (or socialist), anti semitic, anti northern and ***ist views. Hence the phrases he used such as ‘scouse git’ and ‘layabout’ towards his left wing Liverpudlian son in law, ‘silly moo’ towards his wife, ‘them Jews’ as a description of Tottenham from a West Ham fan, along with numerous examples of racist terminology.
It was satirical and Alf’s prejudice and hypocrisy made him an object of ridicule. Sadly I suspect he might now be something of a folk hero to some these days.

[SithHappens]

If someone tells me Metal Mickey was racist then I'm done for as I loved it.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think you may misremember, GP.
Alf was a reactionary, white working class Londoner who held racist, ***ist, anti Labour (or socialist), anti semitic, anti northern and ***ist views. Hence the phrases he used such as ‘scouse git’ and ‘layabout’ towards his left wing Liverpudlian son in law, ‘silly moo’ towards his wife, ‘them Jews’ as a description of Tottenham from a West Ham fan, along with numerous examples of racist terminology.
It was satirical and Alf’s prejudice and hypocrisy made him an object of ridicule. Sadly I suspect he might now be something of a folk hero to some these days.

I think I remember Alf Garnett at least as well as you and was merely agreeing with you that it was a parody of the bigotry typically seen as the basis for jokes in the Comedians featuring Bernard Manning et al, which, if youd read the rest of my post based itself on exactly the bigotry that Alf parodied - ie anti black, anti pakistani, anti jewish, anti gay, anti women etc etc - indeed a heritage assumed by such as Roy Chubby Brown later.

Even when I'm agreeing with you, you have to dispute it!!

[Geoff Parkstone]

If someone tells me Metal Mickey was racist then I'm done for as I loved it.

No but Mickey Mouse was it seems

[ramAnag]

I think I remember Alf Garnett at least as well as you and was merely agreeing with you that it was a parody of the bigotry typically seen as the basis for jokes in the Comedians featuring Bernard Manning et al, which, if youd read the rest of my post based itself on exactly the bigotry that Alf parodied - ie anti black, anti pakistani, anti jewish, anti gay, anti women etc etc - indeed a heritage assumed by such as Roy Chubby Brown later.

Even when I'm agreeing with you, you have to dispute it!!

Apologies. Site was playing up. I thought you were suggesting that AG was an example of ‘core Labour voter bigotry’. If I misunderstood I apologise.

As I remember, the late great Les Dawson - who came from much the same background - seemed to manage without recourse to racist rubbish.