Election Year or Fear!

[Ram Pant]

Suella Braverman says there should be a by-election if someone moves parties but not in her case as she's different to everyone else.

One Law for the rest and a different one for Cruella Deville?

[ramAnag]

No your not, despite a number of reservations, he has done reasonably in very diffiuclt circumstances. He has obvious weaknesses and seems to have a piss poor team around him, but many things have been done which just don't get aired, even by Labour, they just aren't very good at getting a positive message across. He is by far the best PM for a long time, though admittedly that isn't a high bar to clear, but its something.

As for Burnham, yes he does have his good points, but he could have played a much better game, kept quiet, talked to Starmer about returning as an MP and not been so openly manouvering for months. That I find distasteful and unhelpful. Best thing he can do is keep quiet and run Manchester well, stop being a disruptive influence and looking like a naked opportunist!

Think you may be being a little harsh on Burnham, Swale, although I do agree with you about Starmer and thought his stance and the way he spoke about the Greenland situation in the middle of last week was particularly impressive and statesmanlike.

It may be worth contrasting the mealy mouthed words of the likes of Jenrick and Braverman as they abandoned ship for Reform - increasingly a care home for disgruntled wannabe former Tory leadership candidates - with Burnham who appears to have handled his recent disappointment with rather more dignity.

[swaledale]

Think you may be being a little harsh on Burnham, Swale, although I do agree with you about Starmer and thought his stance and the way he spoke about the Greenland situation in the middle of last week was particularly impressive and statesmanlike.

It may be worth contrasting the mealy mouthed words of the likes of Jenrick and Braverman as they abandoned ship for Reform - increasingly a care home for disgruntled wannabe former Tory leadership candidates - with Burnham who appears to have handled his recent disappointment with rather more dignity.

I probably am to an extent, its just the sniping from the sidelines, the blatant positioning himself as the possible messiah that grinds. Its also not a good game to play is it? Surely get back as an MP, then build up ones support and reputation quietly and if an opportunity arises go for it. But then in politics these days naked self ambition overides the need for a political pary to pull together it seems. The way he announced his wish to be selected in the media, why? Just put your application in and keep quiet. It all smacks of grandstanding to me.

I realise that all political parties are compromises, a way of getting people with similar views but often very different approaches or beliefs in how those views should be put into action, but that requires compromise in order to succeed. Which incidentally makes GP's view on the person as a representative rather than a political party more than a bit naive.

To achieve most things, people have to work together and thats never more true than in politics. Governing a country where a good proportion of the population won't agree with the governments philosophy, always assuming they actually think much beyond wanting instant solutions to complex issues of course, is hard enough at the best of times.

[swaledale]

As for Braverman, well it was only a matter of when not if.

Sacked from Truss's cabinet for breaing the ministerial code! She lasted less time than Truss! sacked by Sunak! Braverman was Reform long before Reform even existed!

Yesterday was embarssing, Braverman talking about how her parents were immigrants, then ranting on about immigration, whislt forgetting that immigration had risen to record levels whislt she was in government. She might have been Attorny general and Home Secretary in the last government but nothing was her fault!

Talking about loyalty, when she has consistently been the one of the most disloyal and untrustworthy Tory politicians.

Ah well I'm sure voters will decide to give someone "new" a chance when that "new" is a party that is mostly the politicians who****ed up the country when they were Tories! Are voters really that thick?

[Ram Pant]

We might just be starting to see some sense back in NL politics. Following the election and nobody wanting to work with Wilders PVV, The VVD not willing to work with GL/PvdA and D66 not willing to work with JA21, D66 and CDA got together and came up with a plan laude by most parties. A notable exception was Wilders (PVV was 2nd largest party) who didn't bother to read it, saying, I was left out of any discussion on forming a coalition so I'll just oppose anything and everything. Then VVD was invited to join in the talks. The expected outcome is expected this Friday. The 3 coalition partners have 66 from the 150 seats. 10 short of a majority

In the past week, GL/PvdA (19 seats) have thrown their hat into the ring saying time to lut the country above the party and that they, despite not being in the cabinet, are prepared to support much of what the incoming cabinet wants and have some things they'd like in return. Also, 7 of the 26 PVV seat holders have grown a conscience and split to form their own party. Same final wishes as the PVV but they are willing to accept slightly less severe strengthening of immigration rules and see that a s a step towards getting their end game, bit by bit. JA21, 9 seats are also backing the new coalition on many things. A centre cabinet with support (at a reasonable price) from both left and right.

The extremes from both sides are calling it treachery. Most view it as "Netherlands first" as we've been without a proper government for over 4 years now. Many things need sorting and sorting quickly. The Nitrogen problem. Personal tax allowance issues caused by racism at the tax office. Compensation for people whose houses in the province of Groningen are subsiding due to the wiining of gas there over the past 60 odd years. Ukraine, NATO, EU, immigration etc... There are a couple of smaller parties with just 2 or 3 seats who are also making positive noises. Looks like we might finally have a cabinet that a) gets things done and b) lasts the full 4 years (minus the coalition forming period)

[Andy_Faber]

We might just be starting to see some sense back in NL politics. Following the election and nobody wanting to work with Wilders PVV, The VVD not willing to work with GL/PvdA and D66 not willing to work with JA21, D66 and CDA got together and came up with a plan laude by most parties. A notable exception was Wilders (PVV was 2nd largest party) who didn't bother to read it, saying, I was left out of any discussion on forming a coalition so I'll just oppose anything and everything. Then VVD was invited to join in the talks. The expected outcome is expected this Friday. The 3 coalition partners have 66 from the 150 seats. 10 short of a majority

In the past week, GL/PvdA (19 seats) have thrown their hat into the ring saying time to lut the country above the party and that they, despite not being in the cabinet, are prepared to support much of what the incoming cabinet wants and have some things they'd like in return. Also, 7 of the 26 PVV seat holders have grown a conscience and split to form their own party. Same final wishes as the PVV but they are willing to accept slightly less severe strengthening of immigration rules and see that a s a step towards getting their end game, bit by bit. JA21, 9 seats are also backing the new coalition on many things. A centre cabinet with support (at a reasonable price) from both left and right.

The extremes from both sides are calling it treachery. Most view it as "Netherlands first" as we've been without a proper government for over 4 years now. Many things need sorting and sorting quickly. The Nitrogen problem. Personal tax allowance issues caused by racism at the tax office. Compensation for people whose houses in the province of Groningen are subsiding due to the wiining of gas there over the past 60 odd years. Ukraine, NATO, EU, immigration etc... There are a couple of smaller parties with just 2 or 3 seats who are also making positive noises. Looks like we might finally have a cabinet that a) gets things done and b) lasts the full 4 years (minus the coalition forming period)

Sounds like going radical on the voting system wasn't such a bright idea. What's your view? I voted for PR at the UK referendum but having seen other countries traumas I'd rather keep the UK system now

[Ram Pant]

Sounds like going radical on the voting system wasn't such a bright idea. What's your view? I voted for PR at the UK referendum but having seen other countries traumas I'd rather keep the UK system now

For me, the biggest drawback is the possibility of coalition talks taking forever. 9 months is not uncommon, both here and in Belgium. In those 9 months you get the new Parliament with the old cabinet. The cabinet MAY introduce new things but they, of course, have to be voted on by the new Parliament. The only things they can make "cabinet decisions" on are things that were current at the time of the election.

I like the way that, needing a 3, 4 or 5 party consensus means the more outlandish left or right policies get dumped leaving a central approach, which is generally the more sensible policies.

Where it falls down is the large number of parties in Parliament. The one just ending had getting on 20. The current one had 12, that is now 13 due to the 7 splitting from the PVV.

Current state of the poll...

D66 26 seats centre
VVD 22 right of centre left of PVV
GL/PvdA 20 links
PVV 19 so far right on immigration they're off the page, socio-economically left of centre
CDA 18 Christian Democrats centre
JA21 9 right od the VVD, left of the PVV
PVV breakaway 7 just as right as PVV but prepared to help the country by taking the odd win as a step to their aim
FvD 7 well off the right hand side of the page. Previous leader was/is also a huge conspiracy theorist. Party was don to 1 seat in the polls. Replaced just before th election to try to gain some credibility. It seems to have worked.
BBB 4 right of centre representing the working man and farmers, they say
DENK 3 basically a Muslim party
SGP 3 ultra orthodox religious group, never had a male parliamentary candidate in their 108 years of existence. women belong in t kitchen...
PvD 3 Party reperesenting Animals. very green, very socialist, huge on animal welfare
CU 3 Christian Union. Religious but sensible with it. left of centre on most things but when it comes to ethics on things like embryo tests etc they are very much right
SP 3 Socialist party, some very good ideas, I like the leader apart from his not backing of the Ukraine
50+ 2 A party for those aged 50+ whose main platform is ensuring decent pensions for everybody
Volt 1 Pro European slightly right of centre party

1 lower house seat equates, roughly, to 70K votes. In the original vote pre the PVV split, they, like D66, ahd 26 seats. Overall D66 had 10K more votes so they got first chance at forming a new cabinet. We are 2 days short of 3 months post election and the new cabinet is almost ready. That is very quick in relation to most elections which usually take place around 3 months after the election is called (almost 6 months this time), add 6 to 9 months coalition forming and that's 9 to 12 months of inactivity, politically. I'd prefer a systen where parties would need 10% of the vote to get their share of the seats. 13 parties in a 150 seat Parliament is way too many.

Lot of info there to take in but that's the current make up of the lower house. Upper house is voted on, sort of, the % of votes in local elections entitles a party to that % of the seats in the upper house.

[Ram Pant]

Not perfect but better than forst past the post that can deliver a huge majority in seats, like now, on 1/3 of the vote. PR also means you can't help yourself gain more seats by moving constituency boundaries...

[Andy_Faber]

Not perfect but better than forst past the post that can deliver a huge majority in seats, like now, on 1/3 of the vote. PR also means you can't help yourself gain more seats by moving constituency boundaries...

Personally I prefer a single party (or at worst a dominant/subservient twosome) who have the power to push on with stuff in total harmony whatever the colour of their rosette - trouble is, the last two attempts (post Brexit conservatives and current Labour) look to be proving me wrong

[swaledale]

Bold move by Reform to put Goodwin, an ex academic turned right wog hate monger and grifter as the cnadidate in the fothcoming byelection.

Goodwin is basically the same as Farage, will say anything contentious as long as it gets him, money, fame and possibly power. One can respect a politician of whatever colour who acts out his true beleifs, but these grifters who don't actually belive anything they say, indeed will say whatever they think advances their own interests are bizarre, contradictory and hypocritical.

Still some brain dead voters will vote for them I guess.