Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

Your wasting your effort RA, I reached the conclusion long ago that TTR is incapable of original thought or intelligent analysis. Which is why I have him on ignore. I mean his second sentence above doesn't make sense for a start.

For me, any person who votes for Reform, or considers Farage to be a viable Prime Minister, is either incapable of critical reasoning or has lost the ability to do so.

If one just looks at who is funding Reform, crypto shysters, fossil fuel companies, hedge funders and the like, then the first question that needs to be asked is why?

If one looks at Farage, apart from his any contradictory statements, his praise of Truss's budget, his approval at the time of Mandelson's appointment as US Ambassador, his numerous side jobs earning him £1 million a year in addition to his role as an MP, which all the evidence suggests he isn't fulfilling, hardly spending time in Clacton or indeed the House of Commons then even a half sentient person would perhaps think mm, is this guy a serious politician and is he interested in the life of the average voter.

Anyway, there is 3 years before a GE and a lot can happen in that time and whilst Labour might not be popular, only a fool would think a large proportion of the voting public will vote for Reform.

Not the ignore crap again 🤣

But the pols keep lying to you then? You said they would do nothing and vanish.
You was wrong, AGAIN

No RA they will not win the next election. They won?t win another one for a generation after what this lot have done

[ramAnag]

Not the ignore crap again ��

But the pols keep lying to you then? You said they would do nothing and vanish.
You was wrong, AGAIN

No RA they will not win the next election. They won?t win another one for a generation after what this lot have done

It wasn’t me who said they would. I don’t know and merely pointed out that three and a half years is a very long time in politics.

I know I’m wasting my time but look at it this way. Approaching a decade ago you lot won the narrowest of victories in the Brexit referendum but did little in the 2019 GE when Farage didn’t even stand - having missed out on seven consecutive occasions - and Johnson humbled Corbyn’s Labour by winning a very comfortable and large majority.
Johnson lasted as PM for less than three years before resigning in disgrace paving the way for Labour to win with an enormous majority less than two years after Johnson’s departure at which point Farage became an MP for the first time, at the eighth attempt.

Given those facts I find it very difficult to predict what may or may not happen in another three years or so. The Mandelson situation represents a very serious error of judgement. Beyond that I’m not sure what it is about Starmer’s behaviour you find so unforgivable.

[swaledale]

It wasn’t me who said they would. I don’t know and merely pointed out that three and a half years is a very long time in politics.

I know I’m wasting my time but look at it this way. Approaching a decade ago you lot won the narrowest of victories in the Brexit referendum but did little in the 2019 GE when Farage didn’t even stand - having missed out on seven consecutive occasions - and Johnson humbled Corbyn’s Labour by winning a very comfortable and large majority.
Johnson lasted as PM for less than three years before resigning in disgrace paving the way for Labour to win with an enormous majority less than two years after Johnson’s departure at which point Farage became an MP for the first time, at the eighth attempt.

Given those facts I find it very difficult to predict what may or may not happen in another three years or so. The Mandelson situation represents a very serious error of judgement. Beyond that I’m not sure what it is about Starmer’s behaviour you find so unforgivable.

You are RA, best have the idiot on ignore, then unless somebody like you quotes his stupid posts I don't have to read the bollox repeated verbatum from whatever fake news media he is reading. Reform won't win an election simply becuase if that becomes a ral posibility, there will be considerable tactical voting to prevent it. But that won't be the case, because history suggests that Farage will not want to cede control and there will, as has already happened a falling out and defections or ejections from Reform.

As for opinion polls, anybody who takes notice of them 3 plus years from a GE needs to give their head a wobble, as you say a lot can and will happen in the time ahead and agin its a fact that what people say in a poll (iirrespective of its accuracy) is often very different to how they actually cast their vote.

Still let the fascists have thier brief moment of triumph, it wont last.

[Andy_Faber]

You are RA, best have the idiot on ignore, then unless somebody like you quotes his stupid posts I don't have to read the bollox repeated verbatum from whatever fake news media he is reading. Reform won't win an election simply becuase if that becomes a ral posibility, there will be considerable tactical voting to prevent it. But that won't be the case, because history suggests that Farage will not want to cede control and there will, as has already happened a falling out and defections or ejections from Reform.

As for opinion polls, anybody who takes notice of them 3 plus years from a GE needs to give their head a wobble, as you say a lot can and will happen in the time ahead and agin its a fact that what people say in a poll (iirrespective of its accuracy) is often very different to how they actually cast their vote.

Still let the fascists have thier brief moment of triumph, it wont last.

I think you?re genuinely worried

[swaledale]

I think you?re genuinely worried

I'm genuinely concerned that there has been a rise in hateful dialogue, the increasing promotion of false narratives (to the extent that even blatant lies are put out by politicians and repeated online and by media sources deliberately), ethno nationalism, populism which pretends to have simple answers to complex problems, blaming specific groups or "foreigners" and a denial of scientific knowledge (not the same as a challenge) in respect of climate change, vaccines etc.

With a corresponding lack of cooperation and mutual understanding on the serious issues that affect all but the mega wealthy, such as climate change, social care, crime, immigration and inequality generally, whether that be economic, educational, health, or in a wider society.

Am I worried that Reform will form the next Government? Not at present, but then I don't swallow the propaganda pumped out daily online, by certain pats of the media, I don't set much store by opinion polls, many of which have dubious statistical accuracy and other than a vague measure of voters views at a point in time cannot be generally taken as to what may happen in a GE 3 plus years from now.

As for Farage, his track record of being a "one man" show, a disruptor, a spouter of platitudes and of not actually achieving anything that has improved the lives of either the UK or its citizens is obvious to all.

I take it your not worried by the prospect of a hard right Reform Government then?

[ramAnag]

I'm genuinely concerned that there has been a rise in hateful dialogue, the increasing promotion of false narratives (to the extent that even blatant lies are put out by politicians and repeated online and by media sources deliberately), ethno nationalism, populism which pretends to have simple answers to complex problems, blaming specific groups or "foreigners" and a denial of scientific knowledge (not the same as a challenge) in respect of climate change, vaccines etc.

With a corresponding lack of cooperation and mutual understanding on the serious issues that affect all but the mega wealthy, such as climate change, social care, crime, immigration and inequality generally, whether that be economic, educational, health, or in a wider society.

Am I worried that Reform will form the next Government? Not at present, but then I don't swallow the propaganda pumped out daily online, by certain pats of the media, I don't set much store by opinion polls, many of which have dubious statistical accuracy and other than a vague measure of voters views at a point in time cannot be generally taken as to what may happen in a GE 3 plus years from now.

As for Farage, his track record of being a "one man" show, a disruptor, a spouter of platitudes and of not actually achieving anything that has improved the lives of either the UK or its citizens is obvious to all.

I take it your not worried by the prospect of a hard right Reform Government then?

Forums are all about agreement and disagreement, hopefully, in our better moments, as respectfully as possible. Occasionally however there is a post which makes perfect sense and perfectly encapsulates one’s own view. They’re rare things but, for me, the post above is one of them.

[Andy_Faber]

I'm genuinely concerned that there has been a rise in hateful dialogue, the increasing promotion of false narratives (to the extent that even blatant lies are put out by politicians and repeated online and by media sources deliberately), ethno nationalism, populism which pretends to have simple answers to complex problems, blaming specific groups or "foreigners" and a denial of scientific knowledge (not the same as a challenge) in respect of climate change, vaccines etc.

With a corresponding lack of cooperation and mutual understanding on the serious issues that affect all but the mega wealthy, such as climate change, social care, crime, immigration and inequality generally, whether that be economic, educational, health, or in a wider society.

Am I worried that Reform will form the next Government? Not at present, but then I don't swallow the propaganda pumped out daily online, by certain pats of the media, I don't set much store by opinion polls, many of which have dubious statistical accuracy and other than a vague measure of voters views at a point in time cannot be generally taken as to what may happen in a GE 3 plus years from now.

As for Farage, his track record of being a "one man" show, a disruptor, a spouter of platitudes and of not actually achieving anything that has improved the lives of either the UK or its citizens is obvious to all.

I take it your not worried by the prospect of a hard right Reform Government then?

A reasonable question deserves an answer, so, too top to bottom

I’m concerned too, but/and the hateful dialogue is from both/all sides, on many subjects. I blame social media for its rise but not for the existence of it in the first place, social media has merely lifted the lid on hate/division that was always there

I think your definition / understanding of mega wealthy and mine is different, I think folk switch off on being bothered about your list of issues way further down the wealth scale, that’s maybe part of the problem, with what I call the ‘fat and happy’

I don’t see the point predicting three years ahead, I think that’s agreeing with you

Farage’s mettle will only be proven if/when in office, his USP is his ability to ‘connect’ (for good or ill) and that will sustain through time, not sure who or how it could be countered

I’m not worried by any form of govt other than full dictatorship at one end and away with the fairies at the other. I’m more resilient than that, I actually get the impression you are too but our view on how much ‘politics’ influence our lives differ

[ramAnag]

Not at all impressed by Anas Sarwar this evening, but interesting that so many Labour MPs, including Rayner, appear to be coming out in support of Starmer.

Will it last? Who knows? Politics is a messy old business and is it any surprise that the country is in the mess it is when we’re looking at the possible removal of our fourth PM in less than four years? Don’t know what the answer is, but it most certainly doesn’t begin with Nigel.

[swaledale]

A reasonable question deserves an answer, so, too top to bottom

I’m concerned too, but/and the hateful dialogue is from both/all sides, on many subjects. I blame social media for its rise but not for the existence of it in the first place, social media has merely lifted the lid on hate/division that was always there

I think your definition / understanding of mega wealthy and mine is different, I think folk switch off on being bothered about your list of issues way further down the wealth scale, that’s maybe part of the problem, with what I call the ‘fat and happy’

I don’t see the point predicting three years ahead, I think that’s agreeing with you

Farage’s mettle will only be proven if/when in office, his USP is his ability to ‘connect’ (for good or ill) and that will sustain through time, not sure who or how it could be countered

I’m not worried by any form of govt other than full dictatorship at one end and away with the fairies at the other. I’m more resilient than that, I actually get the impression you are too but our view on how much ‘politics’ influence our lives differ

Don't disagree, that on the extremes, whether left or right there is hateful dialogue and yes all people have it within them to spout hate, socila media has I think amplified that to an extent where people who would never insult a sports person for losing for example, feel able to do so in the most disgraceful ways on social media. What social media and technology, including youtube, etc. has enabled is a more widespread dissemination of disinformation, conspiracy theories and the disturbing phenomenum of people who say and promote extrme views, not becuase they necessarily belive them, but because it earns them money, fame and notoriety (and Goodwin the Reform candidate for the byelection is a prime example).

Having said that, Farage and other extreme politicians do now say things which previously would have been thought beyond the pale, that I'm in no doubt, has encouraged other people to see xenophobia, racism, ***ism, misogyny and indeed hatred of "others" as "legitimate".

My defintion of the mega wealthy may be different, I'm referring to those, as exemplified in the case of Epstein, whose wealth and power enables them to act as if the norms of society, as if the rule of law etc. does not apply to them. It also encourages those the hangers on (Mandelson being an example) to support and enable their activities.

The disconnect between a large proportion of the voters and politics is indeed a problem, a significant number either don't make the effort, or simply cannot be bothered to understand the realities of politics and its impact on their lives. However, they will moan and whinge when their house gets flooded, food prices rocket, or services like health, eductation, trasnport etc. are no longer available or they have to pay to access. I'm still struck by the interview with a voter in Clacton at the last election, who when asked why they were voting Reform, said, "becuase of immigrants, we have waiting lists for Dr's, schools are overcrowded and our youngsters can't get a council house. The interviewer then said, but immigrants make up less than 1% of the population here, so how are immigrants the reason in this contituency. The voter had no response to that.

You say that only an outright dictatorship would worry you. The salient point here is that, dictatorships start off by being elected, wolf in sheeps clothing if you will. They are rarely obviously authoriatarian to start with, though they will tailor their policies in a clever way which will appeal to people who want simple answers, such as the death penalty will reduce murders, stopping immigration and deporting people will mean "native" Brits will ahve acess to the services they desire and more jobs, climate chnage is a hoaz and efforts to combat it are pointless, if we stop doing that, you will all see prices drop and your lives improve etc. etc. The point being that I know many don't thin politics influences their lives, but the reality is it does, Brexit, austerity has all contributed to what people are feeling, not the sole reason of course but political decisions ahve imapcted heavily even if people don't realise it.

Then bit by bit, if elected, look at Poland and Hungary for examples, but also look at Le Penn in France and Italy the screw gets tightened, opposition parties are banned, elections fixed, free speech is constrained, in that any dissenting voices from those in power are silenced, the media is suppressed or becomes a state propaganda machine and those harsh punishments that were used against sector sof the population who mnay people thought deserved it, are now used aginst one's family, relatives and friends.

Trump is a relative outlier in that he did actually say what he intended to do and around 50% of the voters seemed to like the idea of a "new and different" approach, I'd say the reality is starting to hit home to more than a few of those and it wil be interesting if not a little worrying how things progress over the next few months. Though I think many of those who thought we will just be resilent and put up with him for 4 more years are now thinking that isn't going to work.

As for Farage, he is a snake oil salesman, pure and simple, yes he has charisma and communication skills, but he has no "man of the people" and no record of any positive contribution to the UK or its voters and surely one has to ask, who are the people and organisations funding him? And whats their motive for doing so?

[Trickytreesreds]

You are RA, best have the idiot on ignore, then unless somebody like you quotes his stupid posts I don't have to read the bollox repeated verbatum from whatever fake news media he is reading. Reform won't win an election simply becuase if that becomes a ral posibility, there will be considerable tactical voting to prevent it. But that won't be the case, because history suggests that Farage will not want to cede control and there will, as has already happened a falling out and defections or ejections from Reform.

As for opinion polls, anybody who takes notice of them 3 plus years from a GE needs to give their head a wobble, as you say a lot can and will happen in the time ahead and agin its a fact that what people say in a poll (iirrespective of its accuracy) is often very different to how they actually cast their vote.

Still let the fascists have thier brief moment of triumph, it wont last.

����������. Thats an awful lot of fascists fail
Perhaps the latest pols upset you?