Election Year or Fear!

[Trickytreesreds]

Trying to keep clear of excessive conflict, and concentrating just on the above:

Requiring private landlords to sell off their properties would be no big deal to me, there might be a small drop in price achieved due to more housing ‘stock’ being available and I’d actually be better off living off the sale income given my life expectancy (0-25 years so let’s say 12.5 - putting it in that way I think I SHOULD sell).

So I can be fairly objective about it

So, even at a slightly reduced price, and even accounting for trickle-down, most properties would STILL be out of the reach most of those who currently rent - two obvious reasons, 1. they can’t (for various reasons, some down to them some not) raise the deposit and 2. They can’t afford the mortgage repayments - remember rents are subsidised where necessary, mortgages aren’t.

I’ve just checked the definition of ‘surfeit’ and it’s ‘an excess of’ - clearly not, there is a shortage of rental property generally and successive HMGs of all colours failure to keep up has only been redeemed, thank God, by the private sector. If current and future administrations pulled their bloody finger out and actually built some houses that would be a good idea, they don’t seem good at it though

So The Greens are attacking a real problem from completely the wrong direction. IMO

Of course they are.
But remove rentals, there is little council housing. Where do all the benefit users go?
Much as folks hate admitting it. Yes successive governments have failed to build enough houses.( though technically, it isn?t them, it?s the building companies who build and won?t do so, without making profit) But what planning was there looking at natural population increase, them governments importing 12 million extra people inside 25 years?

[ramAnag]

Sorry RA I know you are naturally defensive over this crap, but had this been the Tories in power, you?d have been losing your ****

Okay. As ever we see things differently. Not sure what it’s got to do with the Tories being in power. This is all about the Green manifesto isn’t it?
I’m far from being in full agreement with all they suggest, but I think you’re wrong to just try and dismiss them as a bunch of extremists. Maybe need to look closer to home for that.

[Andy_Faber]

Of course they are.
But remove rentals, there is little council housing. Where do all the benefit users go?
Much as folks hate admitting it. Yes successive governments have failed to build enough houses.( though technically, it isn?t them, it?s the building companies who build and won?t do so, without making profit) But what planning was there looking at natural population increase, them governments importing 12 million extra people inside 25 years?

I was trying to avoid diverting the discussion into immigration, I think we all have our stances on that, but yes the unprecedented and unexpected increase in population due to immigration has had a big impact on availability, which the public sector has massively failed to resolve, pushing up rental rates (simple supply/demand).

[ramAnag]

I was trying to avoid diverting the discussion into immigration, I think we all have our stances on that, but yes the unprecedented and unexpected increase in population due to immigration has had a big impact on availability, which the public sector has massively failed to resolve, pushing up rental rates (simple supply/demand).

Just for clarification. Not disputing that net migration between 2004-23 accounted for 65% of total UK population growth. However it reduced drastically - from 755,300 in the year ending June 2024 to 204,000 - in the first year of the current government.

For the sake of perspective, even that figure of 755,300 only equates to an increase of around 1.1%.

Source: Office for National Statistics. Conclusion: We need a sensible approach to future immigration, of course we do, but it is just wrong to blame immigrants for everything from the housing crisis to the problems facing the health and education services.

[swaledale]

I was trying to avoid diverting the discussion into immigration, I think we all have our stances on that, but yes the unprecedented and unexpected increase in population due to immigration has had a big impact on availability, which the public sector has massively failed to resolve, pushing up rental rates (simple supply/demand).

Which is true to an extent, but in many areas immigration has had no or a very marginal impact, as shown by the very low percentage of immigrants in the local population (i.e. Clacton under 1%) so there must be another explanation, which is isn't hard to find, 14 years of austerity/under investment by a Tory government who were happy to allow the population increase, but not it seemed willing or able to plan for the investment in facilities to cope.

Council/social housing has been in most cases a net loss under the Right to Buy (45% of that sold is now in the private rented sector, costing millions more in housing benefit). There has not even be lke for like replacement, though that was a deliberate political act by Thatcher who wanted to remove blocks of "Labour" voters, taken to its extreme in Westminster by Lady Shirley Porter who sold off many council homes there.

Health services are clearly impacted by an increasingly aging population, with a dysfuntional care system not helping either and people's demands for ever more expensive drugs to be kept going for 5 more years (I simplify but the principle is true).

Thats where the big lie peddled by Reform and others about immigration ignores the political decisions made over decades by governments.

To the voter in say Lincolnshire, or Clacton or Great Yarmouth who has voted reform, immigration is most obviously not whats impacting on your life. But its easy and convenient to blame "foreigners" rather than a system that has een the gap in the rich and poor widen, the richest1% become even richer and the benefits of technology used to further enrich the upper echelons rather than benefit society as a whole.

[Andy_Faber]

Just for clarification. Not disputing that net migration between 2004-23 accounted for 65% of total UK population growth. However it reduced drastically - from 755,300 in the year ending June 2024 to 204,000 - in the first year of the current government.

For the sake of perspective, even that figure of 755,300 only equates to an increase of around 1.1%.

Source: Office for National Statistics. Conclusion: We need a sensible approach to future immigration, of course we do, but it is just wrong to blame immigrants for everything from the housing crisis to the problems facing the health and education services.

I really wasn't trying to turn a discussion on Green housing policy into one on immigration, but the ONS states 'The UK has grown (by3,7m) between 2016 and 2024 primarily driven by high levels of net international migration'. So it might not be the only issue but it IS the big issue.

rA, the percentages are interesting but its the absolute numbers that matter - take your 775,000, that means 'room' has to be found for that number of souls, lets guess 500,000 household units, in a telve month period, and no way can the building industry keep up with that, no way can social housing keepup with that, no way is it sensible to make matters even worse by adopting a policy that removes entirely private rentals when that market would just disappear into the residential market (at a slightly reduced, but still unattainable to the same people, price). A sensible policy would be to encourage an INCREASE private rental to relieve the mess we have now and reduce rents through supply and demand

Swale, your comment about Gt Yarmouth is clearly made without you having been there - in the period 2009 -2025 I visited for three days at a time three times a year, the increase in immigrants and the impact on the town (apart from the Golden Mile) was stark

Just my observations.

[swaledale]

I really wasn't trying to turn a discussion on Green housing policy into one on immigration, but the ONS states 'The UK has grown (by3,7m) between 2016 and 2024 primarily driven by high levels of net international migration'. So it might not be the only issue but it IS the big issue.

rA, the percentages are interesting but its the absolute numbers that matter - take your 775,000, that means 'room' has to be found for that number of souls, lets guess 500,000 household units, in a telve month period, and no way can the building industry keep up with that, no way can social housing keepup with that, no way is it sensible to make matters even worse by adopting a policy that removes entirely private rentals when that market would just disappear into the residential market (at a slightly reduced, but still unattainable to the same people, price). A sensible policy would be to encourage an INCREASE private rental to relieve the mess we have now and reduce rents through supply and demand

Swale, your comment about Gt Yarmouth is clearly made without you having been there - in the period 2009 -2025 I visited for three days at a time three times a year, the increase in immigrants and the impact on the town (apart from the Golden Mile) was stark

Just my observations.

Mm I'm in Great Yarmouth roughly twice a month and have been for the last 8 years, so yes I have been there and do know the town. It has a deprivation score which is in the middle for England and Wales, so not one of the most derpived areas of the country, I agree parts of the town, like many UK coastal towns is certainly run down, but that is not as a direct result of immigration. There is an issue in that some towns, Blackpool being an example, have higher levels of already low income people going there due to cheap rents etc and yes, some placement of certain groups including asylum seekers and immigrants which exacerbates an already existing problem.

The Great Yarmouth constituency is predominantly White, with the 2021 Census indicating that 88.9%
of the population identifies as White British.

An additional 5.7% fall under the "Other White" category.

Minority ethnic representation is lower than the national average, with 1.6% identifying as Mixed/Multiple ethnic groups,

0.2% as Chinese,
0.1% as Caribbean,
0.1% as Gypsy or Irish Traveller, and 0.8% categorized within other ethnic groups

Between the last two censuses (held in 2011 and 2021), the population of Great Yarmouth increased by 2.5%, from just under 97,300 in 2011 to around 99,700 in 2021.

The population here increased by a smaller percentage than the overall population of the East of England (8.3%), and by a smaller percentage than the overall population of England (up 6.6% since the 2011 Census).

The population of Great Yarmouth has a higher proportion of older people, again common in coastal towns, people with low levels of education and health issues. Great Yarmouths socioeconomic problems are due to its location, aging population and lack of skilled well paid employment, though ironically given Reform's opposition to green energy, offshore wind farms are actually creating a significant number of well paid skilled jobs.

Hard to see how immigration has had an impact on the decline of the town unless one prefers to believe a certain view point rather than look at the facts.

I'm not saying immigration hasn't had an impact in some places (though that impact hasn't been necessarily all negative) but Great Yarmouth certainly isn't one of them.

[ramAnag]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

[swaledale]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

According to the Office for National Statistics there were 1,507,000 empty homes in England in 2023. Of which an estimated 10% were second homes, i.e. those not rented out.

According to the Empty Homes Network analysis of government council tax data 2025 found the total number of empty and second homes not in use stands at 998,784 – around one in every 25 homes across the country.

That includes 265,061 homes officially classed as long-term empty, meaning they have stood vacant for more than six months. That figure has risen by 3,587 in the last year alone.

Meanwhile, this year has also seen a 16,552-strong increase in the number of second homes lying unoccupied, up to 279,870.

Taking into account, 237,202 short-term vacancies and 216,651 empty properties which are exempt from council tax, the campaign group found almost a million homes are standing vacant at a time when the UK, as a whole, is in the grip of a housing crisis.

Add to that inefficient use of the housing stock with underoccupied homes, often 3 bed and larger family homes occupied by 1 or 2 persons aged 70 and over, which has increased over the decades, which restricts acess to these homes by families and a major factor in the housing crisis is clear.

By the way, I am in no way suggesting eviction of older people, just pointing out, we live longer than we used to and often fail to move into smaller accommodation. Speaking for myself I downsized into level access accommodation 7 years ago in my last move, with an eye to hopefuly the distant future. Before anybody accuses me of hypocrisy and Stasi policies.

However, it does demonstrate that arriving at a conclusion i.e. that immigration is the sole cause of the hosuing crisis, the NHS problems, high unemployment and lack of access to other sources is simplistic and wrong. Farage and others know this, but they also know many people will believe simplistic concepts and like to have an easily identified scapegoat.

[swaledale]

Can I just say…I’ve never been to Great Yarmouth.

Tbf, Andy, my figure for last year was 204,000.

You don't know what your missing.