Election Year or Fear!

[ramAnag]

Genuinely interested rA, what sort of relationship do your USA-based family (who I assume are republicans) have with Republicans? Fair go if you don't want to share

Bit confused by your assumption but you’re right, I respectfully don’t want to share. Besides this is no longer about Republicans and Democrats - well not in the old fashioned way at least - this is about Trump’s increasing lunacy and who is really behind him and what their motivations are.

[Andy_Faber]

Bit confused by your assumption but you’re right, I respectfully don’t want to share. Besides this is no longer about Republicans and Democrats - well not in the old fashioned way at least - this is about Trump’s increasing lunacy and who is really behind him and what their motivations are.

Fair enough, although I'm equally confused about the last part of your comment

I've spent more time in America/amongst Americans recently than I have before, and its interesting to me that the majority of those I've met face to face are fairly respectful of differing political views, yet the media, both network and social, spin a country at war with itself.

[ramAnag]

I've spent more time in America/amongst Americans recently than I have before, and its interesting to me that the majority of those I've met face to face are fairly respectful of differing political views, yet the media, both network and social, spin a country at war with itself.

I?d probably agree with that, although I tend to avoid political discussions when I?m away on holiday, but I suggest you look at a political map of the U.S.
With the exception of Florida I?ve spent most of my time in the U.S. in the north eastern states, California and the SW which coincidentally tend to be largely blue (Democrat).
The appropriately named and largely red Republican ?fly over? states are places I haven?t visited and my knowledge of the ?deep south? is strictly limited but a glance at the map will tell you how divided the U.S. is, divisions which only become infinitely more exacerbated when an outgoing President behaves in the way Trump did when his first term of office came to an end.

[swaledale]

Fair enough, although I'm equally confused about the last part of your comment

I've spent more time in America/amongst Americans recently than I have before, and its interesting to me that the majority of those I've met face to face are fairly respectful of differing political views, yet the media, both network and social, spin a country at war with itself.

A parallel can be drawn with the UK, where if one believed the media and dubious opinion polls, one would think half the populace was at war with the other half and there was a state of constant political bickering between those of different political leanings. Most people are too busy getting on with their lives!

I mean last summer, the mail, Torygraph, and other right wing mags and commentators were continually claiming it was "tinder box" Britain, likely to erupt in civil war at any moment, yet out on the streets of the many towns and cities I visted there was no sign of that tension.

In respect of the US and Americans, where I currently volunteer, there is US airbase close and many Americna service men and their families visit. Beyond a discussion as to which par tof the States thier from I avoid politics, but a number do claim not to have voted for Trump or apologise for his behaviour.

[MadAmster]

I read this earlier, be interested to know your thoughts on it. Checking it out, there's a piece on the BBC putting Labour's claim.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4489zllkvo

The piece I read...

The 20 VAT ON PRIVATE SCHOOLS will create ?1.8 Billion to provide 100,000 new, high-quality early education and childcare places for children from nine months old.
This plan includes:
* Over 3,300 new nurseries: These will be created by converting spare classrooms in existing primary schools into nursery provision.
* Targeting "childcare deserts": The new nurseries will be focused on areas with severe shortages of childcare .
* Rollout: As of April 2025, the government announced the first phase of this initiative, with 4,000 places in new school-based nurseries rolling out.
Reform UK has officially pledged to change this policy. Their 2024 election manifesto included a proposal to abolish the 20% VAT on private school fees and instead offer a 20% tax relief on these fees to encourage parents to choose independent schools.
Another reason why you shouldn’t vote reform helping the minority against the majority?

[Geoff Parkstone]

My take on this is that (a) the VAT hike will lead to people leaving private education predominantly in the senior school level, and less so in junior school level. This will put demands for more resource in the state sector for those age groups. (b) To use the money raised by imposing VAT on preschool and childcare sectors doesn't really match the increased demand at older levels.

Seems like solving one under resourced areas problems while creating another one. The pressures on higher schools will just increase even more?

Increasing childcare facilities would enable both parents to work / single parents to work but there look to be rapidly reducing number of jobs in the next decade due to AI etc.

I'm not convinced there is any joined up thinking here....

[Andy_Faber]

I read this earlier, be interested to know your thoughts on it. Checking it out, there's a piece on the BBC putting Labour's claim.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw4489zllkvo

The piece I read...

The 20 VAT ON PRIVATE SCHOOLS will create ?1.8 Billion to provide 100,000 new, high-quality early education and childcare places for children from nine months old.
This plan includes:
* Over 3,300 new nurseries: These will be created by converting spare classrooms in existing primary schools into nursery provision.
* Targeting "childcare deserts": The new nurseries will be focused on areas with severe shortages of childcare .
* Rollout: As of April 2025, the government announced the first phase of this initiative, with 4,000 places in new school-based nurseries rolling out.
Reform UK has officially pledged to change this policy. Their 2024 election manifesto included a proposal to abolish the 20% VAT on private school fees and instead offer a 20% tax relief on these fees to encourage parents to choose independent schools.
Another reason why you shouldn?t vote reform helping the minority against the majority?

?even if some of that minority, and most of that minority who can?t take the 20% in their stride, are ordinary people who bust their *******s and sacrifice luxuries to improve their children?s lives. Collateral damage I guess

[ramAnag]

I know GP went to private (public) school as did I (though only via a particular form of scholarship and only between the ages of 10-14) but I wonder if either he or AF are genuinely aware of the disparity that currently exists between fee paying schools and more typical state run secondaries, particularly those in less well to do areas.
I’ve visited a few, for reasons I won’t go into now, and there is a chasm, not just a gap, between the facilities on offer to those who can afford it and those who can’t. Such a start in life provides a huge ‘leg up’ in terms of later success and, philosophically, I’d respectfully ask GP and AF to justify that inequality.
P.S. I’m not against access to such ‘privileged’ facilities…I’d just like them to be shared around more equally.

[MadAmster]

I know GP went to private (public) school as did I (though only via a particular form of scholarship and only between the ages of 10-14) but I wonder if either he or AF are genuinely aware of the disparity that currently exists between fee paying schools and more typical state run secondaries, particularly those in less well to do areas.
I?ve visited a few, for reasons I won?t go into now, and there is a chasm, not just a gap, between the facilities on offer to those who can afford it and those who can?t. Such a start in life provides a huge ?leg up? in terms of later success and, philosophically, I?d respectfully ask GP and AF to justify that inequality.
P.S. I?m not against access to such ?privileged? facilities?I?d just like them to be shared around more equally.

I think the answer may well be somewhere between "it's my money and I'll spend it anyway I like" and "what's wrong in wanting to give my kids a leg up if I can afford it" and/or a combo of the two.

I have no issue with the argument that there should be private education for those who want and can afford it but do think that, as the private schools provide a service, just like any other service, there should be VAT due on the fees. When I ran a business giving IT and Business English courses at various firms, VAT was applicable. Driving school fees attract VAT provided the driving school reaches the VAT threshold. Why should Harrow, Eton, Shrewsbury (rowed against them on many an occasion with varying success), Mill Hill (dated the caretaker's daughter back in 71 and 72), Repton (swam against them whilst at BGS, never lost a meet against them) etc be treated differently.

I fully understand that there are some parents who send their children to private schools and really have to scrimp and save to meet the costs but, at the end of the day, it's a service and should attract VAT, just like Business English courses and driving lessons. What's good for the goose...

[Andy_Faber]

I wonder if either he or AF are genuinely aware of the disparity that currently exists between fee paying schools and more typical state run secondaries...there is a chasm, not just a gap, between the facilities on offer. Such a start in life provides a huge ?‘leg up?’ in terms of later success

Yes, well aware, that's why I popped a ******* to send my kids to independant schools

those who can afford it and those who can?’t.

I know its a small sample, but we, and many parents we met in the school environment, made ourselves afford it (if I'd known at the start what it cost me I probably wouldn't have started) which is why I take issue with those who blanket all parents who make the effort as toffee nosed swan's milk drinking hooray Henrys.

justify that inequality.

because we don't live in a communist Nirvana, no two people are 'equal' in terms of start point, journey or end point.

?‘privileged?’

The main privilege my kids had was to benefit from parents who were focussed and had a work ethic, like our parents before us, it tended to flow from there.

Note also that I'm not suggesting anyone can reach such a goal, either through choosing or only being capable of a low paying vocation, but in my experience there are opportunities for gifted children of such families

.