D Day for Brexit

[Supersub6]

Life goes on in spite of what is or isn't happening in Westminster.
We await decisions from our elected MPs, who seem totally divided and just will not pull in one direction, to achieve what the British public voted for in a democratic vote.
Meanwhile, in one week's time they will all go on holiday and not worry one jot about the deepening mess which they leave behind and then in just another 8 months we will be out of the EU ----won't we?

All this going on with a background of TPOUS telling the truth, as many Americans stress, however, then backtracking on what he said and saying that that was not what he meant --that has happened twice just this last few days, however, he will not worry about that.

All in all, I think that I shall just get on and do everything I can do to make society better by looking after those less fortunate than myself and those who really believe that politicians have the best interests of their constituents at heart ----and -----life will go on.

I was watching a music programme this morning about the 1980s when the CND were really strong and all the women surrounded Greenham Common, you know, those sort of demonstrations that now have been concentrating on Trump.
I really don't understand how, with the strength of feeling shown by the CND in their big marches, we still have any nuclear weapons at all, surely the strength of feeling across the world should have seen them banished for ever.

Perhaps we are just pawns in the big game that is played by those running the show and it doesn't really matter what we think or do because they will not listen ---or perhaps I am just a big cynic who just gets on with things, in spite of those running the show.

[oldcolner]

May saved by 5 Labour rebels Field 43% leave constituency, Hoey 18%, Mann 68%, Stringer 50% and Hopkins 58% on the Customs Union vote. Get ready for local deselection moves.
Had she lost then a vote of no confidence would have followed and maybe an election if she lost.

12 Tories voted for the CU in defiance of the whip and the election manifesto. 6 were Soubry 52.5% leave, Wollaston 54.1, Sandbach 52.2, Bebb 52, Lee 54, Djangoly(who?) 53.4 from constituencies that voted leave and should have some serious explaining to do back home. Nicky Morgan 50%, Ken Clarke the rebel without a cause 41.4, ringleader Grieve the ringleader with a grievance 49, Neill 49.6, Allen 38.4, steven Hammond 27.3 were the others.

Knife edge week coming up as plans for an early bath are dropped.

[sinkov]

May saved by 5 Labour rebels Field 43% leave constituency, Hoey 18%, Mann 68%, Stringer 50% and Hopkins 58% on the Customs Union vote. Get ready for local deselection moves.

How were they rebels ? The Labour Party fought the last election on a manifesto pledge of accepting and honouring the vote to leave. The amendment on the customs union was specifically designed to ensure we couldn't leave the EU. So whoever was rebelling, it wasn't the five who voted in accordance with the Party's manifesto.

[oldcolner]

How were they rebels ? The Labour Party fought the last election on a manifesto pledge of accepting and honouring the vote to leave. The amendment on the customs union was specifically designed to ensure we couldn't leave the EU. So whoever was rebelling, it wasn't the five who voted in accordance with the Party's manifesto.

But the party changed their mind Sinkov
- who cares about election pledges.

[sinkov]

But the party changed their mind Sinkov
- who cares about election pledges.

But they can't unwrite their manifesto OC. Of course they have no principles, they can ignore election pledges, they can threaten de-selection, they can do what they like, but no party can call those who vote to keep manifesto pledges rebels.

[1959_60]

"I want a clean break ? I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails."

By the way Sinkov, I should have made it clear that when i said "others want trade deals" I meant deals with the EU. And that is the nub of the matter. There are a myriad of different arrangements for future trade with the EU. Some involve staying in the single market/customs union, inventing new customs unions, trading with the EU on world Trade Organisation rules etc etc.

You have your own idea, other people have their ideas. To say that "I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails." I'm sorry Sinkov, but I don't buy that. What evidence do you have that the vast majority agree with your version of Brexit? I have yet to hear two people say exactly the same thing about their version - except those that want the complete break option....which not many people support.

Time to hand the final decision to the people or we will go round and round and disappear up our own arseholes.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

How's about someone adheres to a democratic vote and stops shilly-shallying about?

A majority of the United Kingdom's electorate voted to LEAVE the EU. I don't care who holds their up, we can't reach an agreement with the EU so HARD Brexit it is.

No trade deal, no maintenance fees, no farewell golden egg, just sever it and crack on. It might sound simplistic but it's the only way to do it.

We have been up to our necks in the brown stuff before, we will survive!

[Supersub6]

What I am waiting for is the final severance and to see the divided reception that this well bring.
Will the majority who voted to leave say that this is exactly what they wanted --I think not.
Will the majority of those who lost the vote and wished to remain be happy with the deal or no deal scenario ----I think not.
Will the majority of those who could not be bothered to vote either way be happy ----I think not.

I could ask further questions but just suffice to say that, whatever happens in the long run, there will still be as many happy people as there are unhappy.
The only plus, if it is a plus, is the fact that, once the severance is made, it will be down to the people of the UK to ensure that the country progresses without any input from the EU.
I just wish that I had confidence that we had leaders of any persuasion to pick up the reins, however, I don't think that we have but we shall see.

[oldcolner]

Interesting that had Theresa lost by one vote yesterday we could be facing a General Election. 1 out of 650 would be a 49.85% vs 50.15%
MPs can be elected by 1 vote in 50000.
It’s time remoaners just accepted how democracy works. Unhappy people have to learn that too.

[1959_60]

Afternoon OC.

The only true "Pure" Brexit is to sever all ties with the EU and go it alone. I don't think that this would receive much support with the public or Parliament. I don't think that 52% of the population voted for this option.

So then we are back to negotiating some kind of agreement with the EU. And there are many, many possible options for this - but there is obviously no consensus over an agreement that will garner the support of a majority.

Theresa is giving it her best shot...but her proposal is far short of getting the support of the majority of the country.

What would you do? Go for the complete break from the EU or try to cobble a deal together like Theresa is trying to do?

If this is left to politicians only then the country will be in a state of civil war for years to come.

Giving the people the choice is the only democratic way out of this mess.