OT Trump prematurely ejaculates

[AdiSalisbury]

Did anyone see the new Borat film?

He went and visited a couple of (what might be considered redneck) Trump supporters, and they had some misplaced beliefs. Whilst it's cinema and should be taken with a pinch of salt, he is clearly taking the mickey out of them and facilitating some maybe misplaced opinions that they have...

However, they took him, a foreign man of different culture, into their home. Hosted him, fed him, trusted him, and treated him like a friend. They took him to find his daughter and helped him as much as they could. They were proper gentlemen, and far more hospitable than most people would be, I'm pretty certain most of us would've simply walked away, I would - and I have no issue admitting that they are better men than me on human kindness.

What may have been intended to be a facilitation or stupidity, hostility, and backwards thinking, actually shown that these gun toting Trump supporters, are actually good, kind and caring people. Society needs to engage more, and tolerate differences, rather than creating division by forcing populist agendas, casting out anyone who is out of line.

[Andy_Faber]

Did anyone see the new Borat film?

He went and visited a couple of (what might be considered redneck) Trump supporters, and they had some misplaced beliefs. Whilst it's cinema and should be taken with a pinch of salt, he is clearly taking the mickey out of them and facilitating some maybe misplaced opinions that they have...

However, they took him, a foreign man of different culture, into their home. Hosted him, fed him, trusted him, and treated him like a friend. They took him to find his daughter and helped him as much as they could. They were proper gentlemen, and far more hospitable than most people would be, I'm pretty certain most of us would've simply walked away, I would - and I have no issue admitting that they are better men than me on human kindness.

What may have been intended to be a facilitation or stupidity, hostility, and backwards thinking, actually shown that these gun toting Trump supporters, are actually good, kind and caring people. Society needs to engage more, and tolerate differences, rather than creating division by forcing populist agendas, casting out anyone who is out of line.

Good anecdote and well said

[ramAnag]

rA "Many of Trump’s supporters are ‘inarticulate hillbillies’. There are some who vote for him as a way of objecting to the loss of jobs to countries such as Mexico and China, but in general he appeals to the bigots, the white suprematists, the gun lobby and those amongst the elderly who, not unlike many UKIP supporters, seek a return to their, possibly imaginary, halcyon days."

You're beginning to sound like that old sourpuss rA again who would not accept that more people voted for Brexit than voted remain. Its very strange to find such an elitist perspective in someone who, I think, believes in the very opposite of elitism. Those (inferentially) undesirables that you identify as Trump core support have just as much right to vote for anyone they chose to as you do. In that single paragraph you are displaying tendencies I would expect to see in a white supremacist denying the validity of a black person's vote: well they dont count as I'm a better more aware person.

Democracy is about everyone having the right to express an opinion, not just about the democrats having that right.

Incidentally, I share your view in a subsequent post about having visited the states many times but not felt uncomfortable, but you need to get out more into the southern bits, which are broadly speaking red. Very welcoming and generous even if they do take a rifle to church - its only to warn off critters disturbing the Lord's work such as raccoons and coyotes

Ridiculous comment. I never questioned that ‘more people voted for Brexit than voted Remain’. I questioned that, in a single issue referendum, a majority of the electorate voted for Brexit which is entirely different...and true.

Which of my comments about Trump’s suggestions and behaviour do you disagree with? I completely agree about everyone having the right to express an opinion. I also have the right to express the opinion that those who support a man who behaves the way he does are misguided and foolish.

Fully recognise that some US citizens, particularly rural/remote farmers, are likely to need a gun to protect their livestock from wildlife that is considerably more dangerous than anything found here. That does not however extend to crazies having the ‘right’ to carry and/or own automatic weapons imo.

My comment about ‘Red’ states wasn’t meant to be elitist. It’s just a fact...I think I’ve been to 17 states and all but Florida and Utah (can’t remember how Virginia and West Virginia went) voted Democrat. Either way given your regular comments about the North, and Liverpool in particular, you’re hardly in a position to criticise on the subject of elitism.

P.S. Completely agree with Adi’s comment that society needs to ‘tolerate differences’. Unfortunately tolerating the views put forward by Trump and others on the extreme Right is the exact opposite of that.

[swaledale]

That's so partisan I assumed Swale had written it til I double checked! I'll repeat my mantra from way back in time, it's that sort of dismissive attitude from liberal folk that just hardens the attitude of people who waver between choices. SOME republicans are hillbillies, just the same as some democrats are mealy-mouthed apologists, but when (as Swale points out) Trump/Reps gain MORE Latino votes despite his despicable outbursts, there has to be something else going on. IMO its the same here, a lot of folk you wouldn't expect vote Cons/ UKIP/ Brexit party simply because they are fed up with the status quo

Oh I know a lot of people voted for Brexit who by any standards were well educated professional people and one couldn't dismiss them as being ignorant. However, in every case when I asked the question as to why they voted for Brexit, being fed up with the status quo wasn't ever one of the reasons they gave. In point of fact every reason they gave was actually not factually true, the most common one though was actually more about preserving the status quo, or at least it seemed that it was thought Brexit would somehow take the country back to a golden age they fondly imagined in the 1950's and early 1960's, which was both not true and not possible.

I am fascinated by how the term liberal has become an insult. Again its this use of a convenient label to cover a range of people who are quite diverse but is used by people who are either lazy, ignorant or both!

[Andy_Faber]

Oh I know a lot of people voted for Brexit who by any standards were well educated professional people and one couldn't dismiss them as being ignorant. However, in every case when I asked the question as to why they voted for Brexit, being fed up with the status quo wasn't ever one of the reasons they gave. In point of fact every reason they gave was actually not factually true, the most common one though was actually more about preserving the status quo, or at least it seemed that it was thought Brexit would somehow take the country back to a golden age they fondly imagined in the 1950's and early 1960's, which was both not true and not possible.

I am fascinated by how the term liberal has become an insult. Again its this use of a convenient label to cover a range of people who are quite diverse but is used by people who are either lazy, ignorant or both!

I'll forgive you your last sentence into relapse and genuinely ask what the word is then. I genuinely don't know, or maybe there isn't one, and 'liberals' is probably wrong. Bigots feels a bit harsh because as you point out the target demographic is so wide. I'm neither lazy (if I was I wouldn't be doing revenue earning work at 00:13) nor ignorant but on this occasion the word escapes me.

[swaledale]

I'll forgive you your last sentence into relapse and genuinely ask what the word is then. I genuinely don't know, or maybe there isn't one, and 'liberals' is probably wrong. Bigots feels a bit harsh because as you point out the target demographic is so wide. I'm neither lazy (if I was I wouldn't be doing revenue earning work at 00:13) nor ignorant but on this occasion the word escapes me.

Thats very kind of you to forgive me using a set of perfectly reasonable terms to describe people who use words in a negative fashion without actually knowing what they mean. oh and by the way I used lazy in this context, to denote lazy thinking and ignorant I think you've self explained quite well!

Let me use this as perhaps an explanation of the term.

The term ‘liberal’ has come to be used as one of abuse, often without much thought for what it means. I have always understood it to mean a commitment to the values of freedom, democracy, social justice, respect for the individual and protection from oppression by corporate interests or the state. Critics now associate it with weakness, complacency and social irresponsibility and by doing so diminish the fundamental values for which it stands. Politicians and others praise the liberal values for which the country fought two world wars, but rarely apply them to contemporary situations.”

[Geoff Parkstone]

Liberal is one of those words with dual meaning in today's usage. Either the complimentary or derisory usage. It's just how attitudes change and language usage modifies to reflect it. In the 60s it was a positive to be called Liberal by your contemporaries, now its more pejorative.

What used to be a compliment becomes ironically an insult. Not unlike how the N word is now used in black parlance, but in reverse. Its an interesting evolutionary study: consider the word gay in the 50s and now. Meaning has been re cycled by the generations. On a similar note swear words escalate - damn and blast was inappropriate before the ladies in the 50s, nowadays said ladies happily use the F and C word in public.

Wonder how we will swear in the 2050s?

[ramAnag]

Liberal is one of those words with dual meaning in today's usage. Either the complimentary or derisory usage. It's just how attitudes change and language usage modifies to reflect it. In the 60s it was a positive to be called Liberal by your contemporaries, now its more pejorative.

What used to be a compliment becomes ironically an insult. Not unlike how the N word is now used in black parlance, but in reverse. Its an interesting evolutionary study: consider the word gay in the 50s and now. Meaning has been re cycled by the generations. On a similar note swear words escalate - damn and blast was inappropriate before the ladies in the 50s, nowadays said ladies happily use the F and C word in public.

Wonder how we will swear in the 2050s?

I though the use of the term ‘nigga’ by black people towards other black people was ironic or a way of denoting some sort of ‘kinship’.

The term ‘liberal’ was, imo, used in exactly the way that Swale describes but, as he also suggests, our changed society now regards such views as representing ‘weakness’, hence the adoption of other terms such as ‘snowflake’ which seems to be a pejorative term aimed at anyone
who shows any degree of sensitivity or concern for the well being of others.

I very much doubt that many of us on here - Adi apart - will still be swearing in the 2050’s, GP...shouldn’t worry about it.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I always remember when in primary school English we did "opposites". Right is opposite of left etc, up to down. Then I was asked what is the opposite of dog. Totally stumped, the modern day me might have ventured "not a dog" but I had no clue, and even less of a clue when told the answer was cat. It all ended with me being sent to visit the headmistress for arguing with the teacher. Hence I still remember it.

I cant imagine how kuds today would cope with such a quiz in school where the same words have contradictory meanings. What is the opposite of "woke" - sleep? The opposite of snowflake?

I don't envy your future equivalent trying to explain much of today's English to future generations

[Andy_Faber]

I though the use of the term ‘nigga’ by black people towards other black people was ironic or a way of denoting some sort of ‘kinship’.

The term ‘liberal’ was, imo, used in exactly the way that Swale describes but, as he also suggests, our changed society now regards such views as representing ‘weakness’, hence the adoption of other terms such as ‘snowflake’ which seems to be a pejorative term aimed at anyone
who shows any degree of sensitivity or concern for the well being of others.

I very much doubt that many of us on here - Adi apart - will still be swearing in the 2050’s, GP...shouldn’t worry about it.

Its used in some groups simply instead of 'mate', but not especially popular in UK, the on-trend word used by blacks and not especially by others is 'bro'.

Neither liberal nor snowflake cover the behaviours I'm talking about and the closest word that truly sums such folk up is bigot, but even thats not quite hitting the spot - I'm taking about folk who can, for instance (and there are many) demonise the USA 'gun lobby' yet deny the fact that the vast majority of gun related deaths in USA are black on black (I just picked that as an example)