what advice would you give RMT unioin

[grantzer]

Now to get back on the topic.
It was stated in last Sunday’s Sunday Times newspaper that the General Secretary of the RMT receives and annual pay and pension package of £163,500 while a GP partner in an average practice earns £115,000 per annum.
GP partners are classed as self employed and will have to make their own pension contributions from their annual salary.
The question is who gives value for their annual salary package.
The GP who is trying to his patients life or the General Secretary of the RMT who is hell bent on preserving outdated and inefficient working practices throughout the U.K. railway network and is happy to bring the country to a standstill by telling his union members to go on strike

First off a union general secretary does not tell anyone to go on strike, the union ballots its members who then decide on industrial action.

Comparing salaries is a great idea. How is it that someone who does a completely different job to someone else gets paid less than that other person? It's ridiculous,everyone should be paid exactly the same, like with erm........communism.

But if we are gonna do this.... Boris earns 175k a year,gets at least 2 free houses, a car,security detail,claims pretty much everything on expenses and had his downing street flat decorated with gold wallpaper.

Where is the value from this? Surely a GP partner should be earning more than that?

I would argue we also get more value from bus drivers, train drivers, bin men,nurses, firemen,police,ferry drivers, posties,dentists,and many many others. Surely they all should at least have the same as the PM??

And if they make mistakes,or break the law, we should ask how many big calls they got right,say all of them regardless of all the mistakes,and let them carry on

[Deeranged]

First off a union general secretary does not tell anyone to go on strike, the union ballots its members who then decide on industrial action.

So what does the Union General Secretary do? If all decisions are made by the collective membership why does a union need a fat cat sitting at the top earning £163,000 of the money donated as membership fees by the collective membership? Get rid of the person at the top, reduce what the members donate in membership contributions and nothing changes surely?

Or is the General Secretary needed up there to assume they know what the Borg wants and to stir **** maybe?

[islaydarkblue]

First off a union general secretary does not tell anyone to go on strike, the union ballots its members who then decide on industrial action.

Comparing salaries is a great idea. How is it that someone who does a completely different job to someone else gets paid less than that other person? It's ridiculous,everyone should be paid exactly the same, like with erm........communism.

But if we are gonna do this.... Boris earns 175k a year,gets at least 2 free houses, a car,security detail,claims pretty much everything on expenses and had his downing street flat decorated with gold wallpaper.

Where is the value from this? Surely a GP partner should be earning more than that?

I would argue we also get more value from bus drivers, train drivers, bin men,nurses, firemen,police,ferry drivers, posties,dentists,and many many others. Surely they all should at least have the same as the PM??

And if they make mistakes,or break the law, we should ask how many big calls they got right,say all of them regardless of all the mistakes,and let them carry on

The General Secretary of RMT Union could advise his members not to go on strike as thanks to the Covid pandemic their jobs are now threat due to people now working from home instead of commuting by train every day of their working week.
A reduction in members means less income for the RMT Union and a reduced salary for the General Secretary.
Incidentally the same article in the Sunday Times stated that the Deputy General Secretary of the RMT Union received an annual pay and pension package of £118,000.

[grantzer]

So what does the Union General Secretary do? If all decisions are made by the collective membership why does a union need a fat cat sitting at the top earning £163,000 of the money donated as membership fees by the collective membership? Get rid of the person at the top, reduce what the members donate in membership contributions and nothing changes surely?

Or is the General Secretary needed up there to assume they know what the Borg wants and to stir **** maybe?

The union would still need someone or a group of someone's to negotiate on a national level. In the case of the RMT, with 60k members,they are paying around 6p each a week for wages to their general Secretary. I imagine those members think he is worth it.

And if the members are happy paying the money,who are we to argue?

[Deeranged]

The union would still need someone or a group of someone's to negotiate on a national level. In the case of the RMT, with 60k members,they are paying around 6p each a week for wages to their general Secretary. I imagine those members think he is worth it.

And if the members are happy paying the money,who are we to argue?

I'll never agree with a union supporter on the usefulness or relevance of the role of trades unions. Both myself and my wife have been let down very badly in the past by unions and neither of us would ever consider joining any union ever again.

My opinion, and I fully appreciate the opinion of anyone who disagrees, is that unions are not there to support the members but to allow the more senior representatives to get feet under the table with management for their own purposes. After I left the union my career took off, partly because I wasn't being held back by the collective, and I ended up a manager involved in discussions with union reps. It's amazing how complicit they become when the offer of 3% for the members is extended to be higher for Shop Stewards.

Self serving, greedy and selfish are just three of the qualities required to rise to the top in a trades union in my experience.

[BCram]

I'll never agree with a union supporter on the usefulness or relevance of the role of trades unions. Both myself and my wife have been let down very badly in the past by unions and neither of us would ever consider joining any union ever again.

My opinion, and I fully appreciate the opinion of anyone who disagrees, is that unions are not there to support the members but to allow the more senior representatives to get feet under the table with management for their own purposes. After I left the union my career took off, partly because I wasn't being held back by the collective, and I ended up a manager involved in discussions with union reps. It's amazing how complicit they become when the offer of 3% for the members is extended to be higher for Shop Stewards.

Self serving, greedy and selfish are just three of the qualities required to rise to the top in a trades union in my experience.

It is very difficult to try to think about an organisation such as a Trade Union if you have very upsetting personal experiences involving Trade Unions. I think your description of the characteristics that you have used to describe trade union leaders might well be applied to a highly motivated, ambitious focussed individual like yourself who has achieved financial security etc.

I think Trade Unions might need to revise their perpetual class war rhetoric. It takes two to have a dispute and it always seems to me that organised labour is portrayed as Luddite, unambitious and very unwilling to embrace change. Percentage wage increases always get the headlines but it is the detail of how the wage increase is to be funded that needs more exposure. If there was a 20% reduction in the number of trains to match the sort of figure that rail franchises are saying their passenger numbers are down by and it does not look as though there is going to be a return to pre covid levels of commuter activity, how can anyone find a way of keeping the existing size of workforce unless there is a 20% increase in fares? Wages are not the only cost there are the capital costs of the trains and the maintenance costs for the track. I don't envy any trade union leader their job but I think they need to move with the times as so many others have done. It also seems to me that computer controlled trains can't be far away.

[frankiekopel]

I'll never agree with a union supporter on the usefulness or relevance of the role of trades unions. Both myself and my wife have been let down very badly in the past by unions and neither of us would ever consider joining any union ever again.

My opinion, and I fully appreciate the opinion of anyone who disagrees, is that unions are not there to support the members but to allow the more senior representatives to get feet under the table with management for their own purposes. After I left the union my career took off, partly because I wasn't being held back by the collective, and I ended up a manager involved in discussions with union reps. It's amazing how complicit they become when the offer of 3% for the members is extended to be higher for Shop Stewards.

Self serving, greedy and selfish are just three of the qualities required to rise to the top in a trades union in my experience.

If I'm reading this correctly, and apologies if I have read this wrongly ,if shop stewards are being offered a bigger wage rise than ordinary workers this is totally illegal and both the person or company offering this is breaking the law ,and if accepted by the stewards they are also breaking the law ,I was on the national committee for a union for around 20 years and can honestly say no employer ever ever offered a bribe to any member of the union ,

[islaydarkblue]

If I'm reading this correctly, and apologies if I have read this wrongly ,if shop stewards are being offered a bigger wage rise than ordinary workers this is totally illegal and both the person or company offering this is breaking the law ,and if accepted by the stewards they are also breaking the law ,I was on the national committee for a union for around 20 years and can honestly say no employer ever ever offered a bribe to any member of the union ,

My wife worked in NCR which for many years was a closed shop. This meant that every employee had to join a Union whether they wanted to or not. In the Cash a lot of the shop stewards got the better paid jobs.

[Deeranged]

If I'm reading this correctly, and apologies if I have read this wrongly ,if shop stewards are being offered a bigger wage rise than ordinary workers this is totally illegal and both the person or company offering this is breaking the law ,and if accepted by the stewards they are also breaking the law ,I was on the national committee for a union for around 20 years and can honestly say no employer ever ever offered a bribe to any member of the union ,

Hilarious, absolutely fkn hilarious. Illegal, doesn't happen? On a union national committeee for 20 years and not a clue what's hapening in the real world - pretty much one of the points I was making. The fat cats representing their own perception of what the members want. Did your national committee appreciate tht all people want to do is work and not to strike or take other costly industrial action?

Going on strike because 51% of those that submitted ballots opted for industrial action when only 60% of the members actually voted is not representing members, it's having an agenda and creating a mandate to force it.

[frankiekopel]

Hilarious, absolutely fkn hilarious. Illegal, doesn't happen? On a union national committeee for 20 years and not a clue what's hapening in the real world - pretty much one of the points I was making. The fat cats representing their own perception of what the members want. Did your national committee appreciate tht all people want to do is work and not to strike or take other costly industrial action?

Going on strike because 51% of those that submitted ballots opted for industrial action when only 60% of the members actually voted is not representing members, it's having an agenda and creating a mandate to force it.

our national committee had 1 strike vote in 20 years ,after the members had rejected the same final offer twice ,which had been recommended for acceptance by the union ,we had no other option but have a strike vote ,which the members decided not to strike ,so the wage offer they had rejected twice was then accepted, bet there's not many on here have taken part in a strike ,I haven't,
Ps I still worked on the shop floor while serving on the national committee, so knew what the members wanted