O/t sturgeon

[BCram]

Public v private employment split.

Any criticism of public employment at the moment is akin to blasphemy in the 17th century.

Total lockdown is a joke, sturgeon I denial that a lot of people are just ignoring her and certain public employees know their jobs will be there at the end of this are encouraging the ubber cautious approach.

Don't worry Rross. Once the taxes start going up to pay for this the enthusiasm for collective responsibility will drop back.

[Returnofrros]

Don't worry Rross. Once the taxes start going up to pay for this the enthusiasm for collective responsibility will drop back.

Nothing is off the table......look at what happened in Greece.

[BCram]

Nothing is off the table......look at what happened in Greece.

I don't think we are the same as Greece. Agree that if we failed to get our economy back working then the measures that were forced on Greece might be considered for here. Greece was totally under the eurozone bosses and that's a major difference as far as I can see.

[islaydarkblue]

Teachers do like their time off Islay but I feel you're being a bit harsh here. Kids won't socially distance and if schools were reopened fully they would spread the virus like wildfire amongst themselves. As BCram says history suggests that a second wave could have a devastating effect on the young rather than the older population - presumambly because older people will have more mature immune systems with greater ability to build up resistance to viruses - and it could get nasty for them.

My suggestion would be to insist that teachers partake in community work whilst off. They couls be helping with delivering food packages to the isolated elderly people in the community for example.

Or they could paint my fence for me, I'm pissed off doing it already.

Hi Deeranged.
My father was a teacher so I know all about the long holidays that they receive which have become even longer since the teachers strikes in the 1980’s. My father told me that there used to be 200 admissions per year which equates to 200 school days that a teacher and pupils are at school.
After the teachers strike ended in 1986 their new contract stated that that pupils had 190 admissions per year and 195 days for teachers which is 5 in service days per year. Teachers have quietly received an extra five working days holiday which equates to one week and yet they are still moaning about being overworked.
The teacher unions are complaining about the virus spreading like wildfire if schools were re-opened yet there has been no mention about the schools that are currently open for pupils with special needs and pupils of key workers. The teachers working in these schools are likely to have little or no PPE but there has been no comment about this from the General Secretary of the EIS (General Education of Scotland) teachers union.

[islaydarkblue]

My worry is that lockdown is the simple and effective answer but only for a short period. We cannot carry on like this and we need a new idea. I am afraid my only idea is to kit everyone out with some form of face mask, PPE. We need everyone back working. I don't know the costs of PPE but I think that's a route we should consider.
Doctors and nurses can survive the most infectious environments with full PPE. Surely getting everyone kitted out with effective PPE that copes with the much less challenging conditions on public transport and work places is the way ahead. That and testing seem to me to be a much better way of moving forward.

The management of the NHS are scared stiff that the British public will clamour to demand that they receive a face mask from their GP which will result in a shortage of face masks for hospital staff.
Yesterday it was reported that Honeywell based in Central Scotland had signed a contract with the Government to produce face masks from this July. Why wait until then to produce face masks unless they are stock piling for the second wave of the Covid-19 virus which will hit the UK in Autumn 2020.

[grantzer]

Hi Deeranged.
My father was a teacher so I know all about the long holidays that they receive which have become even longer since the teachers strikes in the 1980’s. My father told me that there used to be 200 admissions per year which equates to 200 school days that a teacher and pupils are at school.
After the teachers strike ended in 1986 their new contract stated that that pupils had 190 admissions per year and 195 days for teachers which is 5 in service days per year. Teachers have quietly received an extra five working days holiday which equates to one week and yet they are still moaning about being overworked.
The teacher unions are complaining about the virus spreading like wildfire if schools were re-opened yet there has been no mention about the schools that are currently open for pupils with special needs and pupils of key workers. The teachers working in these schools are likely to have little or no PPE but there has been no comment about this from the General Secretary of the EIS (General Education of Scotland) teachers union.

200 people who don't show any symptoms of the virus,with no evidence to suggest they cannot spread it,but plenty evidence to suggest they won't keep to social distancing.

All of them may be able to go home and infect whole families as well as their teachers and THEIR families.

Yet these selfish teachers,some of whom are working six day weeks doing online classes,and worked through the Easter holidays are suggesting they cannot go into that environment,simply because they won't take the risk of infection!!!

Health and safety gone mad

[BCram]

The management of the NHS are scared stiff that the British public will clamour to demand that they receive a face mask from their GP which will result in a shortage of face masks for hospital staff.
Yesterday it was reported that Honeywell based in Central Scotland had signed a contract with the Government to produce face masks from this July. Why wait until then to produce face masks unless they are stock piling for the second wave of the Covid-19 virus which will hit the UK in Autumn 2020.

I think you are misreading the situation. For me the principle of providing PPE has been lost in the fog surrounding who is responsible for procuring it. We have not had a central procurement process since Devolution. Somehow Scotland has not been getting on with the provision of PPE. We were slow to realise what was happening in the care sector and that seems to me to have been a Scottish failure of policy, just as much as anywhere else. Take credit for the stuff that works and blame others for any failures.
To be fair I think Nicola has been pretty consistent in her briefings and the doctor who does the TV ads seems to be pretty straight talking too. Only trouble is the complete failure to address the economic problems that are heading down the track, as Rross has been pointing out for weeks, possibly even months!

[BCram]

200 people who don't show any symptoms of the virus,with no evidence to suggest they cannot spread it,but plenty evidence to suggest they won't keep to social distancing.

All of them may be able to go home and infect whole families as well as their teachers and THEIR families.

Yet these selfish teachers,some of whom are working six day weeks doing online classes,and worked through the Easter holidays are suggesting they cannot go into that environment,simply because they won't take the risk of infection!!!

Health and safety gone mad

Grantzer, think you are wrong about teachers being selfish, but the principle that they have done so much at the height of the epidemic and now seem to be wanting some changes to be made to the arrangements should be discussed. I dont know what they think are problems, but as a member of a generational family I think if there is a problem for them at work, surely as you point out in your post, their must be the same problem for the families that these children live with.

[Returnofrros]

I think you are misreading the situation. For me the principle of providing PPE has been lost in the fog surrounding who is responsible for procuring it. We have not had a central procurement process since Devolution. Somehow Scotland has not been getting on with the provision of PPE. We were slow to realise what was happening in the care sector and that seems to me to have been a Scottish failure of policy, just as much as anywhere else. Take credit for the stuff that works and blame others for any failures.
To be fair I think Nicola has been pretty consistent in her briefings and the doctor who does the TV ads seems to be pretty straight talking too. Only trouble is the complete failure to address the economic problems that are heading down the track, as Rross has been pointing out for weeks, possibly even months!

It's akin to borrowing aff the local money lender, you can have as much as you want but he/she is having it back in spades very soon and probably for evermore.

The furlough scheme was/is too generous and at the same time didn't reach enough people.

We are now throwing billions here there and everywhere as if a few billion won't make much difference now.

It will, it does.

[grantzer]

Grantzer, think you are wrong about teachers being selfish, but the principle that they have done so much at the height of the epidemic and now seem to be wanting some changes to be made to the arrangements should be discussed. I dont know what they think are problems, but as a member of a generational family I think if there is a problem for them at work, surely as you point out in your post, their must be the same problem for the families that these children live with.

Think you misread my intention. Telling teachers to go back to work is a financial decision,and disregards any risk involved. BJ needs kids at school so parents can work, so will find statistics to prove the schools should return. Changing class sizes from 5 to 15 obviously trebles the risk of infection, and it makes no sense for teachers to want that

Teachers or indeed anybody, should not return to work until they think it is safe to do so.

If Boris can say it's safe,then why can't your boss just say the same thing and make you return?