Reply With QuoteRochead - Your post above is one of the best I have read on here on this subject.Originally Posted by Rochead
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Yes I have seen the poster, is he racist? he very well may be despite his denials, only he can answer that question. My opinion of the poster is that it is abhorrent, to use mass refugees in that way is disgusting, however that is the work of UKIP and not the official leave campaign, in my belief immigration should be controlled the way it is in other countries as mention by a previous poster. War refugees, that is a separate matter altogether and nothing to do with whether or not we should leave the European market.
I did not agree with joining the common market, at the time I felt we were cutting out too many other markets, other countries we were dealing with at the time. My preference would be to deal with all markets without any rules coming from Brussels, I do not accept the rhetoric of doom being spouted by the remain team, no country is going to refuse to deal with us if we leave, they have got their own economies to think about.
Also, I would not like our economy to be connected with the Euro, too many weak economies linked to it, wouldn't want the burden already borne by Germany and France in trying to constantly bail them out.
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Rochead - Your post above is one of the best I have read on here on this subject.
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Agreed.
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Great post. With regards to the rhetoric of doom you mention...there has been a lot of talk about all the "experts" stating that the economy would reduce if we exited the EU. Some of these experts also predicted that the economy would reduce if we did not take up the Euro (hmm), others like the IMF said that we would have mass unemployment given the reduced public spending by Osbourne (hmm)... so I thought I would take a look at the assumptions of these "experts".
There are some issues with the models used by these experts, however, it is not the models that are the major problem. It is the starting assumptions. As with all modelling, what you put in as the start (your assumptions) has a major impact on what you get out at the end. Looking at the assumptions these "independent" experts have done something rather interesting. They have assumed that the UK would choose to put protectionist tariffs against trade from all countries around the world, including the EU. The assumption was that the protectionist tariffs would be in line with the general tariffs that countries adopted prior to joining the EU.
In short the decision of the "experts" to assume that the UK instead of using Brexit as an opportunity to move to general free trade pursues general protectionism which in effect reduces the extent of free trade is important in obtaining its negative results for output.
My big issue with this is that tariffs are on the whole going down around the world. The EU would not put tariffs on our goods (it is against their own economies interests). In fact, if they did we could still run a non protectionist agenda. New Zealand implemented a global zero tariff policy in the 1980's.
If these models changed their original assumptions and instead did (as David Cameron said during the general election) that "Britain was open for business", we can look at a scenario where we do not introduce protectionism. In that scenario, instead of Brexit being bad for GDP, we get positive growth figures. (analysis performed by Prof. Patrick Minford). This analysis is based on WTO rules and no protectionism policies. Oh and by the way, if we went with a non protectionist policy prices of everything you buy would go down. Given that only 15% of companies actually sell stuff abroad this would be a huge boost to consumers and by definition have greatest relative impact for benefit for the poorest in our society.
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I see Cameron's welfare package which he negotiated is only for 12 years. So these laws that he keeps going on about regarding the 4 year claiming benefits law etc have still to be passed my the EU council of ministers and when/if they are will be capped to 12 years from now.
It begs the question, why are Brussels waiting to after the referendum to ratify these laws, and if we stay what will replace them in 12 years?
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Yep I saw that and could see him thinking... "what did I just say".
A vote to Remain in the EU will be taken by the EU as an affirmation that we agree with what they have done in the past and will do in the future.
I will vote to Leave because I see how they have treated Greece, how their people have no hope, how pensioners are suffering etc. and would not be able to look myself in the mirror and tell myself I knew this and still gave them my blessing.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...s-about-brexit
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Thank you, just the way I see it, I know many people have a different view
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I lived in Greece for a couple of years around the time the Euro was introduced. Every single main infrastructure program from the airport to the new roads and metro were awarded to German companies with vast amounts of EU funding. The tax receipts from these companies went straight back to the German exchequer or German banks through loans
.
Now Greece is left to clear up it's mess while the EU impose tax and welfare reforms that the Greek economy cannot cope with. The direct result of the EU intervention is mass unemployment with families now so poor the church is overwhelmed with new born babies and children who are bei g given up by parents who think the riches of the church will give them a better life. The richer families send their kids abroad as soon as they finish school.
I will vote leave because there are no guarantees that at some point in the future the EU won't impose similar tariffs to the UK ,for me we are better out and let democracy decide what the politicians can and cannot impose on the British people.
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You've obviously given your position a lot of thought.
I think facts go against the majority of your points. But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Many leave voters will be motivated by racism in their voting intentions.
Which raises a rather horrible prospect for a post-Brexit society.
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