If there is a second EU referendum

[roger_ramjet]

Recently bought a pair for myself £479 and my wife £560 rip off prices but in the past have found specsavers poor quality. The new one's don't let me see ramAnags posts any clearer though.

I went to Boots and discovered I qualified for a 25% discount if I had a Boots loyalty card - so I got one, got the discount and havent been into Boots since. That brought rhe price down to £500. Its not cheap being hard of eyesight.

[ramAnag]

RP
1. Where have I suggested you are 'narrow minded' and lacking in tolerance and understanding? I undoubtedly think that about Farage, I have never said that about you.
2. I share some of the concerns you raise about Europe but believe in change from within rather than isolationism.
3. Is it not perfectly reasonable to adopt a stance of saying, 'I don't know enough to vote' and isn't that a reason for any two option referendum having to achieve a majority of at least 51% of the electorate in order to 'win' if it is to be described as 'democratic'?
4. My question...and, indirectly, the OP's question was...did you vote 'Leave' expecting to see the value of the pound fall dramatically, the economy suddenly become surrounded by enormous uncertainty and a rise in 'hate crime' which we should, as a nation, be thoroughly ashamed of. I suspect not because you usually seem like a pleasant and sensible poster, but that sure as hell is what you've got.

[ramAnag]

I went to Boots and discovered I qualified for a 25% discount if I had a Boots loyalty card - so I got one, got the discount and havent been into Boots since. That brought rhe price down to £500. Its not cheap being hard of eyesight.

They're a lot cheaper in Europe Rog...well they were!
Never understood the price of glasses especially when non prescription ones are so dirt cheap. The price of vanity I guess but still wrong.

Think you might have had a better day at the Oval than today. 231-4 just now...I'm going for 315 and an England win.

[macstheman]

Whilst I am a remain and don't believe in isolation I also am well aware that change within Europe is a no no. I am sorry but it is too ingrained in it's ultimate aim of federalism. In fact you have to compliment the way that federalism has been insidiously foisted upon it's members. It is a long term project that those in favour are quite happy with gradual progress even if it takes 100 years. Even Sir Winston believed in a United States of Europe!! So I have accepted that federalism is inevitable - if nothing else it will make a change from Party Politics!! Whether my son's and their families will regret federalism remains to be seen - I won't be around to see it!!

[roger_ramjet]

They're a lot cheaper in Europe Rog...well they were!
Never understood the price of glasses especially when non prescription ones are so dirt cheap. The price of vanity I guess but still wrong.

Think you might have had a better day at the Oval than today. 231-4 just now...I'm going for 315 and an England win.

Close ramAnag.... Oval looks a better day and did not feature the inevitable gloating former miners who the EU have done out of jobs 🤓

If you are on the subject of EU trade agreements, what are your views on the insidious EU/US TTIP agreement. Deregulating a lot of trade in non economic areas such as food standards and use of GM content, labour ans social laws, hazchem and toxic materials, digital ptivacy, environmental issues and removing the recent post 2008 banking safeguards: taking away all the protection from expoitation by corporate America, possibly leading to the opportunity to privatise the NHS etc. Oh yes and costing about a million jobs either side of tha Atlantic. You happy to remain in that circumstance?

[ramAnag]

From what I understand RR, the TTIP proposals are seriously dodgy but then, tbh, I don't understand as much as I probably should.
Nothing you've written above sounds in any way reassuring but you seem to have a much better grasp of the implications than me.

Is a 'United States of Europe' necessarily a bad thing mac? As far as trade and defence are concerned I would have thought it was a positive. The USA hasn't done so badly. Laws and legislation need not be universal, despite what some believe many aren't in North America and I know there's been some periodic silliness about bananas etc. but no one seems to be trying to change which side of the road we drive on or standardise how we calibrate speed and distance, the units we drink in the pub or our ever increasing waist, chest and neck sizes. Indeed there was more of an effort to do this in the mid-seventies than there us now.

[swaledale]

Rog you've seriously overstated the TTIP proposals, its not all good for sure, nothing rarely is, but the deregulation you talk about does not mean wholesale removal of safeguards on the issues you have talked about. Its a bloody complicated and intetwined set of proposals.

What does concern me about those who voted leave and those Politicians who led them down that path is that they all have this "Things will change and we will be better off able to manage things as an independent country" attitude but have no real answers or plan as to how this will be achieved.

To think all this was set off by cameron trying to squash the eurosceptics in his party and stop the drift of tories to UKIP and not because there was any serious consideration about what is best for the Uk economy and Uk citizens is simply frightening.

Now Johnson runs scared and the backstabbing begins.

Those who think UKIP will ever be more than a fringe party are mistaken, yes IF those in society actually organised themselves into a political force then there might be some change, but as long as they are content to be led like lambs to the slaughter and can be bought if with simple bribes then they are destined to remain on the margins.

No Angry I'm not mentioning £350 million again, I recognise that those who voted leave werent listening before the referendum are unlikely to listen now, time will tell how it works out in reality but I'm betting it wont improve the lives of those who voted leave!

[AngryRam]

No Angry I'm not mentioning £350 million again, I recognise that those who voted leave werent listening before the referendum are unlikely to listen now, time will tell how it works out in reality but I'm betting it wont improve the lives of those who voted leave!

Ya will, you won't be able to resist. It's the cornerstone of your argument.. None of the other 'leavers' on here based any sort of decision on that claim but yourself and Anag are still hung up on it..

[AngryRam]

Ikea was great by the way... How the hell does anyone buy 3 garlic crushers...
Went there specifically for the in laws and we still buy things for ourselves. I thought I had this trip sorted with military precision.. Wrong!
I was probably the only Little Englander in there though..

[ramspride]

RP
1. Where have I suggested you are 'narrow minded' and lacking in tolerance and understanding? I undoubtedly think that about Farage, I have never said that about you.
2. I share some of the concerns you raise about Europe but believe in change from within rather than isolationism.
3. Is it not perfectly reasonable to adopt a stance of saying, 'I don't know enough to vote' and isn't that a reason for any two option referendum having to achieve a majority of at least 51% of the electorate in order to 'win' if it is to be described as 'democratic'?
4. My question...and, indirectly, the OP's question was...did you vote 'Leave' expecting to see the value of the pound fall dramatically, the economy suddenly become surrounded by enormous uncertainty and a rise in 'hate crime' which we should, as a nation, be thoroughly ashamed of. I suspect not because you usually seem like a pleasant and sensible poster, but that sure as hell is what you've got.

Unfortunately we have had very little success in changing things from within the EU my understanding is that currently we have been unable to change anything. This is probably due to the majority of the EU countries looking after themselves. If you look at the ridicules system of moving from Brussels to Strasbourg every month at a cost of millions each year, a system which most of the MEPs agree is stupid, that cannot be changed because France veto’s it. I wonder if it could be because Strasbourg is in France. In any election/referendum not knowing enough about something has not stopped people in the past. In general elections many people vote labour because they always vote labour. Many vote Conservative for the same reason. I personally have voted both and even Lib/Dem but I do listen to what their policies are and vote for who I believe will be best for the country and in the end best for me and my family. I am told, by the way that if the referendum had been voted on in the same system of voting for Mps, first past the post (FPTP) leave would have walked it.

When I decided to vote leave yes I did expect the £ to fall and the stock market to enter a period of uncertainty, anyone who thought otherwise didn't understand the currency market or the stock market. But the stock market has recovered dramatically, albeit because of the Bank of England’s statement and Osborne saying he will not announce a BREXIT budget but I will be very surprised if when Article 50 is fully implemented this country within a very short length of time will be far better off both financially and as a country.

As regards to hate crime I also expected a rise in this because you will always get some idiots being like that but I also think the media go out looking for this and maybe in some cases encouraging it to get a story.

Finally ramAnag We are obviously never going to agree on this subject and I respect your opinion the same as I do respect anyone’s opinion, its a free world as the saying goes. The one thing I hope that we both agree is in our support for the Rams and I'm sure we are both looking forward to a successful season. After all us Rams Fans must all be friends even though we do not all have the same beliefs.