Admin looming

[MadAmster]

MDS have a lot to say on the ground question. It's in hock to them for £20M or maybe more. I have been told that, if Mel (or whoever is responsible now we're in admin) doesn't pay up then Dell gets the ground by default.

[Andy_Faber]

MDS have a lot to say on the ground question. It's in hock to them for £20M or maybe more. I have been told that, if Mel (or whoever is responsible now we're in admin) doesn't pay up then Dell gets the ground by default.

It would be a very foolish businessman that ever wrote such a contract, more likely they have a thing called a ‘lien’ which gives them ‘possession’ /control until the debt is paid.

[swaledale]

Reading more about Derby's debts, I am staggered that we seem to owe circa £26 million to HMRC, how the **** did it get to that stage?

It really seems that Mel has completely ****ed up in his desperate attempts to get promotion, I just hope he hasn't ****ed the club fatally, because there is a new rule now in force which says that HMRC should be paid in full.

Its a mess and we could see liquidation unless HMRC agree some reduction in the debt owed to them.

[MadAmster]

Reading more about Derby's debts, I am staggered that we seem to owe circa £26 million to HMRC, how the **** did it get to that stage?

It really seems that Mel has completely ****ed up in his desperate attempts to get promotion, I just hope he hasn't ****ed the club fatally, because there is a new rule now in force which says that HMRC should be paid in full.

Its a mess and we could see liquidation unless HMRC agree some reduction in the debt owed to them.

Not just a rule Swale, it's Law.

Two ways of looking at it.

One, they accept a lower amount. That way they get something rather than nothing.

Two, they must be right royally pi55ed off at having club after club sticking it to them and having to accept a % of the debt. Sooner or later they will demand their full pound of flesh and the club involved will cease to exist and that will be a warning to all other clubs to make sure they pay HMRC on time and in full. I just hope they don't choose DCFC as the vehicle they make an example of.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Reading more about Derby's debts, I am staggered that we seem to owe circa £26 million to HMRC, how the **** did it get to that stage?

It really seems that Mel has completely ****ed up in his desperate attempts to get promotion, I just hope he hasn't ****ed the club fatally, because there is a new rule now in force which says that HMRC should be paid in full.

Its a mess and we could see liquidation unless HMRC agree some reduction in the debt owed to them.

Which adds an interesting angle to the "profit on sale of Pride Park" at a high value on an arms length basis. Capital Gains tax at 19% on, say, 50 million book profit would be maybe £ 10 million. If its a pure capital gain DCFC most unlikely to be able to roll forward trading losses against it.

Add VAT, including 12 month covid deferral of payment, and PAYE EENI and ERNIIE perhaps 6+ months in arrears and you're getting there.

Buts its the CGT on the ground sale aspect that hasnt been picked up on anywhere that I have seen - after all you cannot make a huge chunk of profit for P&s / FFP reasons this way and not and up with a tax bill, can you?

[swaledale]

Which adds an interesting angle to the "profit on sale of Pride Park" at a high value on an arms length basis. Capital Gains tax at 19% on, say, 50 million book profit would be maybe £ 10 million. If its a pure capital gain DCFC most unlikely to be able to roll forward trading losses against it.

Add VAT, including 12 month covid deferral of payment, and PAYE EENI and ERNIIE perhaps 6+ months in arrears and you're getting there.

Buts its the CGT on the ground sale aspect that hasnt been picked up on anywhere that I have seen - after all you cannot make a huge chunk of profit for P&s / FFP reasons this way and not and up with a tax bill, can you?

True, but then surely you pay the taxman or he requests his pound of flesh - very odd and an utter shambles!

[Geoff Parkstone]

Don't forget those accounts were not finalised for a long time (not even sure they are now!) And so the tax returns wouldn't have either.

The ground sale looks to have been "non cash" so we wouldn't necessarily have any cash to pay the CGT.

Plus HMRC have traditionally been a bit of a soft touch for "cheap credit" especially in the past 18 months of COVID.

That's my guess anyway, and no more than that

[Trickytreesreds]

What I don't understand is, how it all got this far?
We had winding up petitions thrown at us like confetti?
Did firms/hmrc try this?
Or were the books cooked so good, it was hidden?

https://www.accountancydaily.co/nott...ng-order-touch

[Andy_Faber]

What I don't understand is, how it all got this far?
We had winding up petitions thrown at us like confetti?
Did firms/hmrc try this?
Or were the books cooked so good, it was hidden?

https://www.accountancydaily.co/nott...ng-order-touch

My take on that is that Forest's management knew how to play a dangerous game and Derby's didn't

[StensonRam]

So with the PL confirming the Newcastle takeover does that pave the way for Mike Ashley to come and spend his 300 million he's just pocketed, I mean if he wants the ground as well he'll probably need a bit more like