O/T:- Vaccines: Pro/Anti & Conspiracy Theories [Originally Covid Pass and Meadow Ln.]

[SwalePie]

While I try and respect personal freedoms and not blindly follow like a sheep, from a personal point of view I find the evidence pretty conclusive. Get the jabs as soon as you can, because overall it helps not only you but everyone else in minimising the effects of this virus. I'm triple jabbed and have had Covid (thankfully mild), I'll be booking my next booster as soon as I'm allowed.

Likewise on all counts

[Woodsetts_Pie]

No-one seems to have figured out yet who will do the policing of this. Lets assume we all turn up at the net home match when the "rules" are in force. Just who will be the Covid-police, checking your Covid-Pass-App or similar? It has to be the turnstile operators surely? And just how will that work then, with £9 per hour one-off employees playing judge and jury as to whether I who have travelled from Worksop, and more who have traveled further, can get in........

Also if a venue has a capacity of 20,000 like ours does it come under the rules?
Do the rules apply to venues holding over 10,000 even if only 200 attend?
Or do 10,001 have to attend before the rules apply?

[Woodsetts_Pie]

Just having a conversation with my daughter who is a Blade and has just read my post.... The issue of Sheffield United and Bramall Lane came up. Bramall Lane has automated turnstiles, no people in the box, you just present your ticket in the slot, it goes ding and lets you in.....

[SaltySeaDog]

I just want to say UTM, thank you for sharing your points so well today in this discussion. I feel that this type of discourse should be encouraged more, and is very healthy.

You have obviously delved into this subject quite deeply, and I'd like to ask a question if you don't mind?

One of the sticks used to prod/beat the unvaccinated is that if you catch COVID then you are more likely to spread it. Have you found any evidence that supports or disproves this point?

[upthemaggies]

I just want to say UTM, thank you for sharing your points so well today in this discussion. I feel that this type of discourse should be encouraged more, and is very healthy.

You have obviously delved into this subject quite deeply, and I'd like to ask a question if you don't mind?

One of the sticks used to prod/beat the unvaccinated is that if you catch COVID then you are more likely to spread it. Have you found any evidence that supports or disproves this point?

I would think it stands to reason that the worse the symptoms, the more likely you are to spread a greater viral load and vice-versa.
As vaccinated also catch it, this applies to them. We're being told vaxxed have reduced symptoms, but if that's the case then this would logically be offset (in terms of spread) by the fact they are less likely to isolate or take precautions with mild symptoms, believing they are protected and able to protect others. The more ill you are the less choice you have to be out and about.

There's also the question in which group would the virus more rapidly learn (evolve) to evade vaccines? Logically it has to be in the vaccinated, because it's such a leaky vaccine.

So I think there would be a very strong case to be made that vaccinated are now spreading and driving vaccine resistant variants at least as much as unvaxxed, probably far more, particularly as there are now more vaccinated than unvaxxed, or at least in developed countries. It would make for terribly bad optics though to admit this was the case, so the unvaxxed - as was predicted some six months ago - will instead be blamed for the vaxxed not having the protection originally promised.

[magpie_mania]

Vaccinated or not, segregation or not, everybody vaccinated or not. you will be exposed to Covid and future variants for the rest of your life unless you remain in self induced lockdown forever.

The big question now is, does vaccinating screw up the immune system to the point that most or a significant number will be re-infected to the point they become very ill - repeatedly - short of having a specific targeted vaccine in time, assuming they do actually work*.

If unvaxxed with natural immunity could be re-infected to the point of severe sickness (other than a tiny number of breakthrough cases) we would know about it, the BBC and Good Morning Britain etc. would be screaming it from the rooftops on a daily basis to the point of total hysteria. Nobody talks about natural immunity because it works and casts a far wider net to deal with variants, it's free and there is no money to be made out of it. See also effective treatments and Africa mostly breezing through this pandemic despite being the least vaccinated and least medically equipped continent to deal with it.

I'm fairly convinced they want everybody vaccinated to eradicate the control group, which would otherwise show in the long run that people faired far better with exclusive natural immunity. Government is the shadow cast by corporate business, big pharma rules supreme and the politicians and the media (via the Covid related advertising) have been bought. The rest of us become slaves to pharma and our glorious leaders for the rest of our lives, with our immune system and our freedoms entirely in their hands, the middle class and working class replaced by a slave class.


*A virus would normally weaken in time so you'd expect it to kill off a large number in the early stages, taking out the most vulnerable - this being before vaccinations were available. Vaccines now take credit for reduced deaths but they may well have actually made little or no difference.

Regarding your last sentence, how do you account for the large drop in deaths and hospitalization which seems to have happened after the vaccines were introduced?

[magpie_mania]

Likewise on all counts

Agreed

[BanjoPie]

Some people are beyond help - If the anti-vaxers are so sure of their facts, they should sign away their right to treatment for covid.

[BigFatPie]

Some people are beyond help - If the anti-vaxers are so sure of their facts, they should sign away their right to treatment for covid.

A very good idea. Not many takers I’d guess.

[upthemaggies]

A very good idea. Not many takers I’d guess.

Id happily sign up for that.