O/T Its surprising how people vote

[SBRed48]

1. How is increasing a tax rate closing a scam? If the Chancellor puts 20p on a packet of fags is that closing a scam? Increasing the tax payable for having a company car is no different.
2. In your example, patient B's decision will have no effect on patient A. It certainly won't push him backwards in the NHS queue as you asserted earlier.. But what about patient C who the Consultant sees the following day? He opts for NHS treatment and is one place further forward in the queue than he would have been had B chisen NHS. B is in an entirely separate private queue.

Forget Patient C thrown in to confuse and complicate the original question.
Where does private Patient B have his operation ? Do all private patients all go to separately built theatres with different staff ? If the private group employing the consultant are "buying" time in the NHS theatre, say 50% of the time, then Patient A will have to wait twice as long in pain, while the private one is jumping ahead of him in the shorter private queue. If there was no advantage in "going private" then why bother ?

[KerrAvon]

Forget Patient C thrown in to confuse and complicate the original question.
Where does private Patient B have his operation ? Do all private patients all go to separately built theatres with different staff ? If the private group employing the consultant are "buying" time in the NHS theatre, say 50% of the time, then Patient A will have to wait twice as long in pain, while the private one is jumping ahead of him in the shorter private queue. If there was no advantage in "going private" then why bother ?

Why should we forget patient C? Because it's inconvenient for your argument?

If person B lived in Barnsley and wanted to go private, he or she would have a host of options. Staying locally, he or she could go to the Thornbury Hospital in Sheffield: https://www.bmihealthcare.co.uk/hosp...ry-hospital#na with it’s four operating theatres and 71 beds. Alternatively if patient B had a profits allergy like animal, he or she could use the Nuffield Hospital in Leeds: https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/hospitals/leeds/about-us

At least one of the surgeons who works at the Leeds Nuffield Hospital also works at the NHS Barnsley Hospital (I’d name him, but am concerned that a member of the lunatic fringe who is currently posting on this thread would see that as an invitation to start sending him abusive messages). He works at the Barnsley Hospital from Monday to Thursday and at the Leeds Nuffield on Fridays. What that means is that if patient B chooses to see him at the Nuffield and has treatment there, that cannot in any way push people back on the NHS list at Barnsley, And, as I have stated, his choice can only serve to shorten the list at Barnsley.

My coffee shop example doesn’t seem to have helped so let me give you another example; back in the mists of time when I started out in work, there was a period when I had two jobs – I had a day job and, in the evenings and weekends , I worked behind a bar (in an NHS Hospital Social Club, funnily enough). I can categorically state that no matter how busy I was during the day job, that had no bearing upon the time it took for people to be served drinks in the bar. That’s because even though I am only one person, I had two jobs, in two different places, with two sets of customers at two different times, just like the surgeon I have described above.

Yes, NHS hospitals do provide some limited private services. The notion that it utilises anything like 50% of NHS theatre time or that theatres are in use 100% of the time (upon which your argument is predicated) is just plain wrong. Operating theatres are expensive to staff and operate and have a lot of down time in consequence. The provision of private services use some of that down time because it is funded from outside the NHS. It’s also a source of funding for the NHS that assists them to balance the books and thus to provide services to NHS patients.

People choose private, because it is generally faster and more convenient (patients have a choice of when and where they receive treatment). Staff to patient ratios are generally higher than in the NHS In addition, people often regard private hospitals to be ‘nicer’ places to be with generally private rooms rather than multiple bed wards and better food.

[animallittle3]

Forgive me Animal, I wasn't a miner and have never worked in a unionised workforce so I'm not sure how not voting to hold a national ballot on strike action after actually going on strike works ?

I wasn't at the Battle of Orgreave but growing up in Barnsley understand the depth of feeling reference the strike, I also understand that two wrongs don't make a right in respect of the violence dished out by both sides.
The Labour Party are being purged of anyone who dares to speak out against the extreme left wing views of it's leadership, as an ex labour supporter I'm beyond disappointed at the way the party is being led and run. I'm a patriot with close family ties to the British Army, I can't stomach the fact that the current labour leadership happily supported IRA terrorists and still does. Corbyns performance at the Cenotaph in his first year in office was a disgrace.
Don't forget that it's the sons and daughters of 'the many' they purport to represent who join up, and are then murdered by the terrorists they march in the memory of. And you support them ???

Far from patting you on the head like a kid brother I enjoy your posts enormously - particularly your debates with Kerr. The humour, banter and knowledgeable debate on here is what brought me back to the board to share my own thoughts and opinions. Just because I don't agree with some of your views doesn't mean that I don't respect the man that makes them.

As far as your final question goes on the Labour Party I can't abide what it's become, there was so much potential there but instead it's descended into a party of spiteful class envy and happy clappers. Socialism doesn't work Animal, it's altered the country I love irreversibly, and not for the better.

To be perfectly honest I hate discussing the strike and I have done for many years , I'm not that fussed about all this Orgreave Justice campaign , if they want to go for it then go for it , I'll even chuck some money in fund raising buckets but that's as far as I go with it , I've better things to do than squeal foul play because we got a good kicking in a field in Rotherham nearly 34 years ago , ffs nobody died , I understand it isn't a popular view and will attract criticism , fair enough , I get it but I don't want a forced apology of no fecker , fuq em , I'm a proud man .

No I'd sooner concentrate on the issues of today thank you very much .

Now you say socialism as altered this country and not for the better , we haven't had a labour government running on a socialist platform since 1948 when they created the welfare state and the NHS .

If you are talking about trade unions then the question you have to ask yourself is why did they ever need to come in to existence ?

Yes we've had some hot heads I won't deny that but if you think this country will ever return to the days when people downed tools for 2 months because the bacon in the canteen was overcooked you couldn't be more wrong .

The workplace is far different to 40 odd years ago and more importantly people are different , people today couldn't manage with the internet turned off for 12 hours never mind going on strike for 12 months , never ever going to happen .

All I'm seeking today is to see young people have opportunities to obtain higher education without thousands of pounds worth of debt .

A social housing programme that enables people unable to purchase a home and obtain reasonable standard of housing at a price they can afford .

An end to ZHC so that people are guaranteed an income without insecurity , insecurity harms the economy because nobody dare make financial commitments when they can't rely on a regular income .

The NHS will never be perfect but we can do better , much better , people need to realise that it needs funding and yes your taxes will rise as a result , if people want a living wage as opposed to a minimum one then they can chuck a few pounds in as well , it never was free when it was created so don't expect it now , go price up private healthcare and then get back to me .

I'll throw in tax avoidance too , a subject that needs a thread in it's own right , big companies take the pyss and they get away with it , they may scare the shyte out of other governments but not Corbyn , bring em into line , free loaders some of em .

I'll leave you with this , Thatcher and Corbyn are from the same stock , both divisive characters , both fully committed to their beliefs , both committed to changing the country .

You either loved both of em or you hated em with a passion .

I was on the wrong side of Thatcher so I get it with Corbyn , water off a ducks back with Thatcher and Corbyn's the same , say what you want , write what you want but you ain't going to stop him .

He'll win the next election with a majority , you mark my words and half the country will hate him just like they hated Thatcher but you know what , it doesn't matter .

Someone needs to fight for the silent majority , he'll do for me .

[animallittle3]

Feck all to do with us redflagged , nhs on it's @ss , foodbanks , housing crisis and yet .........


https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...d-saudi-arabia

[red flagged]

Feck all to do with us redflagged , nhs on it's @ss , foodbanks , housing crisis and yet .........


https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...d-saudi-arabia

I know Animal, a couple of years ago I proposed that the UKIP stance at the time on foreign aid was the way we should go. I was ridiculed by many, dismissed as spouting populist policies, but even worse called a racist by some on here.
I stopped posting soon after.

We're targeted to spend 70 pence in every £100 of foreign aid,it's more than we spend on policing in England and Wales, it's a tenth of the NHS budget, it's a disgrace.We box well above our weight compared to the rest of europe and countries like America and Australia.

We should be looking after our own before throwing billions at the likes of pakistan,syria and afganistan.
Queue the ridicule and racism taunts from the happy clappers.

[EastStandRed]

I know Animal, a couple of years ago I proposed that the UKIP stance at the time on foreign aid was the way we should go. I was ridiculed by many, dismissed as spouting populist policies, but even worse called a racist by some on here.
I stopped posting soon after.

We're targeted to spend 70 pence in every £100 of foreign aid,it's more than we spend on policing in England and Wales, it's a tenth of the NHS budget, it's a disgrace.We box well above our weight compared to the rest of europe and countries like America and Australia.

We should be looking after our own before throwing billions at the likes of pakistan,syria and afganistan.
Queue the ridicule and racism taunts from the happy clappers.

Agree totally

[SBRed48]

So private patients help the NHS by using "down time" in NHS facilities. Av heard it all now.

Its been a poor attempt at defending private medicine Kerr. Just be grateful your not one of those in a NHS queue.

You can continue if you like but thats me done fo now.

[KerrAvon]

So private patients help the NHS by using "down time" in NHS facilities. Av heard it all now.

Its been a poor attempt at defending private medicine Kerr. Just be grateful your not one of those in a NHS queue.

You can continue if you like but thats me done fo now.

Do you have any figures on private usage, SB? Can you be sure that you aren’t worrying about nothing and making bad points in consequence? They use very little NHS time at all, SB - that’s the point - they have shiny hospitals like the Nuffield at Leeds.

It's a pity that you are going as you still really haven't explained how private medicine does anything other than reduce NHS the overall length for those who find themselves in one. All those patient C's (who you'd rather ignore) benefiting from the queue in front not being lengthened by those going private.

[KerrAvon]

Do you have any figures on private usage, SB? Can you be sure that you aren’t worrying about nothing and making bad points in consequence? They use very little NHS time at all, SB - that’s the point - they have shiny hospitals like the Nuffield at Leeds.

It's a pity that you are going as you still really haven't explained how private medicine does anything other than reduce NHS the overall length for those who find themselves in one. All those patient C's (who you'd rather ignore) benefiting from the queue in front not being lengthened by those going private.

Here you go, SB. This might you feel better (no pun intended):

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-priv-care.pdf

Private and NHS care should be kept as clearly separate as possible.

Private care should be carried out at a different time to the NHS care that a patient is receiving.

Private care should be carried out in a different place to NHS care, as separate from other NHS patients as possible. A different
place would include the facilities of a private healthcare provider, or part of an NHS organisation which has been permanently or temporarily designated for private care, such a private wing, amenity beds or a private room. Trusts may also want to consider using the services of a home healthcare provider where this is clinically appropriate. Putting in place arrangements for separation does not necessarily mean running a separate clinic or ward. As is the case now, specialist equipment such as scanners may be temporarily designated for private use as long as there is no detrimental effect to NHS patients.

[upthecolliers]

This Kerr caricter spouting on about what happened in the miners strike know's sweet f**** all, I was a miner at Dodworth collery and I voted for strike action around six months before they shut down Cortonwood knowing then that Thatcher government was out to deverstate the miners and their comunatys after slashing the steel industry's l also think Kerr is patient D lonely lost and after attention and only getting that by disagreeing with every thing anyone says.

And that's me done anol.