D Day for Brexit

[Supersub6]

I voted remain and accept that I lost a democratic vote. Since the vote, I have expected that those responsible for ensuring that the wishes of the majority were kept would get on with things, although I accepted that we were battling against 27 other countries who, because of our financial input, would drive a hard bargain in order to let us leave.

What has happened in the past 2 years has just been one complete mess and it does not seem to get any clearer as to what is actually going to happen. Fortunately, I do not worry unduly about things like this because I have cast my vote and lost and just expect them to get on with it. Que sera sera is the only way to look at it.

[1959_60]

Supersub, we could simply walk away tomorrow and there is nothing the EU could do about it.

That is in OUR gift.

But very few people want a complete break - hence the horse trading and bickering.

So let's not blame the EU for doing their job. They don't want us to leave - that is OUR decision.

[sinkov]

Supersub, we could simply walk away tomorrow and there is nothing the EU could do about it.

That is in OUR gift.

But very few people want a complete break - hence the horse trading and bickering.

So let's not blame the EU for doing their job. They don't want us to leave - that is OUR decision.

No we couldn't just walk away, the only way to leave the EU is by a withdrawal agreement under Article 50. We could walk away from negotiating a trade deal which is different thing, but why would we, and Parliament might have something to say about that as well.

Not sure whether it's due to sheer incompetence or a cunning Remainer plan, but our options are now strictly limited to what May can get through Parliament, and what the EU will agree to, there isn't much that's in our gift at all.

[sinkov]

"To say that "I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails." I'm sorry Sinkov, but I don't buy that. What evidence do you have that the vast majority agree with your version of Brexit?"


Dear me 59/60, it's like trying to swim through a barrel of treacle with clogs on, but I'll try again.

There was a referendum two years ago, before the referendum there was a long, many said too long, campaign when both sides put their case. During that campaign it was pointed out by BOTH sides what voting to leave the EU would entail.

We would have to leave the Customs Union and the Single Market, this was highlighted on numerous occasions, especially by the Remain campaign, as two very good reasons for actually staying in. Ending the jurisdiction of the European court in the UK, this was why the EU made such a fuss over EU citizen's rights. An end to vast payments into the EU budget, no longer being subject to EU laws and regulations, that was the point of transferring them by Act of Parliament into UK law, so we could amend them at our leisure later, taking back control over fishing rights, taking back control over immigration, I might have forgotten some things, but those were the main points I think.

That's what we were told we'd be voting for by both sides, have you forgotten already ? That's how I know what leave voters want, it's not my version of Brexit, it's what was on offer to the electorate, we all voted for the same thing, leaving the EU and all that it would entail, as explained during the campaign. May's first two big speeches confirmed those points, but she has since given up on some crucial aspects, to the point that her version of Brexit now bears little resemblance to what 17 million people voted for.

[Supersub6]

I'm with you on this sinkov in that we can't just walk away because there will be things which we must adhere to as laid out under Article 50.
If we did walk away without fulfilling our obligations, whatever they are, this would be made quite clear that we are not to be trusted and could severely hamper future relations both within and outside of the EU.
It is like being in a tug-of-war when half of your team is pushing rather than pulling.

[sinkov]

"The EU has also brokered many very good trade deals outside the EU which we benefit from."

We joined the EU in 1973, 45 years ago. In all of that 45 years the EU has failed to negotiate a Trade Deal with any of the world's six largest economies outside of the EU, The USA, China, Japan, India, Brazil and Canada. Although I believe just a couple of days ago they did manage to sign a provisional deal with Japan. So, of course, this means we don't have free trade deals with them either, with all the added difficulties this entails.

"We are about to leave a very successful free trade block for no good reason."

We can leave the single market, but there is no reason why we cannot still have access to the single market and trade tariff free with the 27 remaining countries. No reason at all, except EU intransigence.

[1959_60]

Morning Sinkov.

A list of EU trade deals at the link.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...artly-in-place

It is looking more and more likely that we could be making a complete break from the EU in March. That's just 8 months away. When the EU rejects Theresa's plan (which you do not support) then Parliament will have to decide whether to make the concessions which they will ask for. Boris and Rees-Mogg etc will make sure that this does not happen.
So Theresa will have three options. A General Election (which would probably result in Jeremy taking over), no deal - meaning we will leave in March without any deal, or handing the decision to the public (which she has ruled out)
I think the no deal is the one she will opt for - she can say that "no deal is better than a bad deal" and maintain a little bit of face.

So I reckon you will get your way in March Sinkov.

At that point we will not have a trade agreement in place with the EU or anyone else. These deals take ages to set up and in the meantime we are likely to be trading under WTO rules...with all that that entails.
And we have just 8 months to sort out the Irish border thing, and a whole host of issues that will result.

Congratulations.

[sinkov]

Morning Sinkov.

A list of EU trade deals at the link.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/cou...artly-in-place

It is looking more and more likely that we could be making a complete break from the EU in March. That's just 8 months away. When the EU rejects Theresa's plan (which you do not support) then Parliament will have to decide whether to make the concessions which they will ask for. Boris and Rees-Mogg etc will make sure that this does not happen.
So Theresa will have three options. A General Election (which would probably result in Jeremy taking over), no deal - meaning we will leave in March without any deal, or handing the decision to the public (which she has ruled out)
I think the no deal is the one she will opt for - she can say that "no deal is better than a bad deal" and maintain a little bit of face.

So I reckon you will get your way in March Sinkov.

At that point we will not have a trade agreement in place with the EU or anyone else. These deals take ages to set up and in the meantime we are likely to be trading under WTO rules...with all that that entails.
And we have just 8 months to sort out the Irish border thing, and a whole host of issues that will result.

Congratulations.

Thanks for the link 59/60, it's a bit pathetic really isn't, I pointed out that the EU had been unable to conclude trade deals in 45 years with the world's biggest 10 economies. If you extend that list to the top 20 biggest economies you can also add the following countries that have no trade deal with them, S Korea, Russia, Australia, Mexico, Indonesia, Turkey, S. Arabia, Argentina and Taiwan. And of course, if the EU has no trade deal with them, we don't either, due to a dysfunctional EU we already trade with the world's biggest economies under WTO rules.

Strange that you seem concerned about WTO rules, when EU membership already obliges us to carry out most of our trade under them.

Are you aware that a border already exists in Ireland, that the two countries operate different VAT rates, excise duty rates, and other tax rates ? These differences are managed perfectly well currently by the customs authorities, trade tariffs would be just one more different rate to manage. It's only a problem because the EU and their sock puppet in Dublin choose to make it one. But that's the EU for you.

Incidentally, it's not my way, seems like we're back in that barrel of treacle. I'll try once more, check out May's Lancaster House speech, that's what 17 million people voted for, that's what I would like to see delivered.

[oldcolner]

The EU Brexit negotiator said the White Paper opened "the way to a constructive discussion" but must be "workable".
He questioned whether plans for a common rulebook for goods and agri-foods were practical.
Earlier, Theresa May urged the EU to "evolve" its position on Brexit and not fall back on unworkable proposals.

Mr Barnier did not reject the White Paper out of hand, saying "several elements" of it were "very useful".
But there were parts that Brussels did not understand which would need further clarification.
He said his main aim was to protect the integrity of the EU single market, and the UK proposals - which would see frictionless trade in goods but not services - risked undermining that.
"We are not going to negotiate on the basis of the White Paper because that's the British paper but we could use many elements of the White Paper," said Mr Barnier.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44903652

[sinkov]

Looks like I've fallen foul of the v-i-t-a-l censor as well.