Charlie Cresswell Dilemma ?

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Various reports that we have had several bids for Cresswell (including from Millwall).

The Square Ball were speculating that Farke’s comments were off the cuff and he may have gone further than he intended.

Way to go - Cresswell is not likely to get the Farke out of here

[Monaco_Totty]

Firstly, I fully get your gist, Hopey regarding youth game time & lack of it & rotation of the substitute options.
But consolation minutes is not the answer long term i'd say as well as my previous comments i made particularly in an important season like this one as results matter.

After comparing English Youth Academy set ups to Euro ones i'm persuaded to think the English quality of matches played at this level is the bigger issue & the quality of it presently.

Brentford, a Championship club at the time, closed their Category 2 academy in 2016 because a facility with running costs of around £1.5million a year then was not producing enough talent for the first team or making a profit through player sales.
Instead of pouring more money into the Academy they decided to pool their resources into setting up a B team, which would only focus on developing players between the ages of 17 & 21 who had a better chance of making an "immediate impact."

The inspiration behind the idea was for the club to “out-think” their competitors by straying away from English football’s Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP).
Even now the Brentford’s B team do not play in a league & the benefit of this is they can organise their own fixtures against Academy sides, non-League teams & European clubs including FC Nantes in France thus providing excellent quality matches weekly.
This gives players a better chance to progress in my opinion, against better strength opposition weekly.

The French Championnat National U19 is the equivalent of English L2 contested by 56 clubs that are split into 4 groups, so plenty of competitive game time for all squad players, plus an extra French Cup competition too & it provides the opportunity to play in UEFA U19 Youth League of which FC Nantes are regulars in.

Brentford relaunched a Category 4 Academy last July but their Community Sports Trust looks after an under-18s squad this season.

Maybe the "B squad" scenario is a better way to the first team & the matches i've seen are top class affairs with an interesting mix of differing tactics on show too with a more mature attitude shown on the pitch.

Whilst observing comments of folks who watch many Leeds youth fixtures & looking at the various age groups Youth League tables tells a story presently.

At U18 level Man U are top with a 100% record after 11 games followed by Man City in 3rd with Leeds 6th & Everton bottom of the North league presently.
At U21 Man U are 13th, Leeds 18th, Everton 23rd & Man City rock bottom with 6 points from 11 games !

Man U don't "develop players" as such as they go out trawling & buy the "young players" globally, of which most disappear never making it to their first team.
Man City U21s look very poor table position wise possibly cos they loan so many out to gain "quality game time" experience.

Maybe an English L3 should be set up with clubs B teams to compete similar to the French set up to benefit all players caught out in this "catch 22" seasonal round-about with emerging talented 18/21 year olds ?
Speaking to my brothers team friends of 18/21 years age bracket then 'quality regular 90 minutes' is what they want & are getting.

Just saying.

[Sniffer999]

I agree or at least happy with Rodon and Struick starting. I get Coopers experience being 3rd choice.
I would love Charlie to come through and be a star for us but don't have an issue with Farke right now.
I've heard Charlie is a very very confident lad, actually an extreme big head. Maybe this has lead to him not stating his view in the right way ?
Thus upsetting the manager who wants to run a tight, obedient ship ?
There are ways it could have been handled better it seems. My suspicion is that Charlie has voiced his opinion too strongly.
It's a real shame as in an ideal world he would break through and be 3rd choice right now and maybe progress further.
None of us know for certain though what has gone on behind the scenes. I can't believe Farke would potentially weaken his options though for no good reason.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I hear ya MT and agree the youth set up now leaves a lot to be desired. They should have adopted the Wilkinson blueprint the FA asked him to draw up.

The Germans adopted it in full!

We definitely produce players who are better technically but maybe at the expense of other development

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Speaking of Wilkinson maybe Farke should review how he handled David Batty and learn from that and HW was certainly no soft touch

[Monaco_Totty]

I agree or at least happy with Rodon and Struick starting. I get Coopers experience being 3rd choice.
I would love Charlie to come through and be a star for us but don't have an issue with Farke right now.
I've heard Charlie is a very very confident lad, actually an extreme big head. Maybe this has lead to him not stating his view in the right way ?
Thus upsetting the manager who wants to run a tight, obedient ship ?
There are ways it could have been handled better it seems. My suspicion is that Charlie has voiced his opinion too strongly.
It's a real shame as in an ideal world he would break through and be 3rd choice right now and maybe progress further.
None of us know for certain though what has gone on behind the scenes. I can't believe Farke would potentially weaken his options though for no good reason.

Sniffer.
Dunno your age but suspect you've been involved with the game & certainly to a decent level at some stage judging by your articulate balanced comments input on all your posts & threads which i enjoy.

Psychology wise Doctor folks would have sat down with such personality types like Charlie has, have a calm & normal conversation about matters & tell said folks to think about it & keep dialogue open.

Controlling the behaviour of an "adult" is nor appropriate as they should be controlling it themselves.
If others are trying to control it, maybe they are half of a problem here or maybe Farkes "expectations are reasonable" but that is not always clear to all 20 year olds.

Main problem in my eyes after being in group therapy sessions with a few athletes over the years is they were raised in an "everybody's a winner" type environment where even the last place finisher requires some sort of trophy. Thus, they expect to be rewarded pretty much for everything, even just showing up never mind actually doing a good job in there chosen sport pathway.

From afar, that is what i believe is the main issue in this particular scenario as i've heard of this situation happening many times particularly when young players "move on" & matters still dont work out for them.
Whatever the outcome i hope all goes well for all parties.

[spaldy]

I'm not fully versed on the youth system in the UK.

However, is seems the FA is a corrupt and incompetent organization. As such, you are much more likely to come up with a better training process using an independent approach such as Brentford than following the standard process that's overseen by the FA. Probably could blend that over time.

I also can't help but wonder if the current system doesn't just act as a "beauty pageant" for the best youngsters? Does someome like Finley Gorman get spotted as quickly if they aren't in the FA system? While we received top dollar for a 15YO the fact is that 1.5 million on someone that was developing as quickly as he was will likely prove a poor investment for us. Frankly, we didn't have to sell financially and he'll cost mulitples of that if he have to purchase in the market 5 years down the road.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Lot of assumptions in there MT - none of really know Cresswell or his personality beyond the little we glean from interviews and the media.

The comments from Millwall suggest he isn’t needy or requires excessive praise etc. He basically forced his way to being a starter through hard work.

There has been nothing from Cresswell and his dad tweeted a picture of Charlie in a Millwall shirt before the POSH game saying he hoped Charlie got some game time.

That again is part of my issue with what Farke did and the way he did it - people are now speculating that Charlie has some form of attitude problem when I suspect none of us know. Charlie can’t respond to what was said and Farke is unlikely to back down so Farke created the issues and did so by parking it in a one way cul de sac.

If you look at comments Farke has made about other LUFC players he talks about mental attitude sometimes - he did with Bambi around Christmas. If you look up his approach whilst at Norwich he seemed quite willing to throw people under the bus regularly.

That is one style of management from hr Jose M school but I just think he can do better than that and the debate on here kind of shows how ill advised it was not least for a young player trying to break through - it is pretty much the worst criticism you can level.

If Cresswell now wants to tell Daniel to get the Farke outta here I have some sympathy with him.

Farke is in a position of power and with that comes responsibility including for younger players well being.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

I'm not fully versed on the youth system in the UK.

However, is seems the FA is a corrupt and incompetent organization. As such, you are much more likely to come up with a better training process using an independent approach such as Brentford than following the standard process that's overseen by the FA. Probably could blend that over time.

I also can't help but wonder if the current system doesn't just act as a "beauty pageant" for the best youngsters? Does someome like Finley Gorman get spotted as quickly if they aren't in the FA system? While we received top dollar for a 15YO the fact is that 1.5 million on someone that was developing as quickly as he was will likely prove a poor investment for us. Frankly, we didn't have to sell financially and he'll cost mulitples of that if he have to purchase in the market 5 years down the road.

If you look at the youth set ups around the world and player transfers sadly it appears it may be as much about making money in some cases and exploiting younger players as it is about youth development.

[Sniffer999]

Sniffer.
Dunno your age but suspect you've been involved with the game & certainly to a decent level at some stage judging by your articulate balanced comments input on all your posts & threads which i enjoy.

Psychology wise Doctor folks would have sat down with such personality types like Charlie has, have a calm & normal conversation about matters & tell said folks to think about it & keep dialogue open.

Controlling the behaviour of an "adult" is nor appropriate as they should be controlling it themselves.
If others are trying to control it, maybe they are half of a problem here or maybe Farkes "expectations are reasonable" but that is not always clear to all 20 year olds.

Main problem in my eyes after being in group therapy sessions with a few athletes over the years is they were raised in an "everybody's a winner" type environment where even the last place finisher requires some sort of trophy. Thus, they expect to be rewarded pretty much for everything, even just showing up never mind actually doing a good job in there chosen sport pathway.

From afar, that is what i believe is the main issue in this particular scenario as i've heard of this situation happening many times particularly when young players "move on" & matters still dont work out for them.
Whatever the outcome i hope all goes well for all parties.

Thanks for your kind words MT. I very much appreciate your posts too. I am 54 years old. I did play to a decent level but ultimately did nothing special. Played on about 30 league grounds. Numerous famous opponents such as Gascoigne, Batty, Speed, Pallister, and dozens of other well known stars. Managed by Norman Hunter.
I know of the psychology side of things but it wasn't around in my days.
Let's hope things turn out well for Charlie and Farke but ultimately LUFC is what matters, as it as done all my life.
Time will tell....