Nicoliar calls

[islaydarkblue]

Exactly. Funny, I think both sides of the argument have good points to make. Makes a difference how you decide to vote when you know you have to vote for what you want, rather voting to stop what you don't want.

About four years I sent an email to my MP Brendan O’Hara who is the SNP MP for Argyll and Bute asking him what he would do if Scotland became an independent country as he would lose his seat at Westminster.
He replied “We voted as a group in favour of Scotland becoming an independent country”.
Therefore the SNP MPs at Westminster have to do as their leader instructs even if it means losing their job.

[Deeranged]

About four years I sent an email to my MP Brendan O’Hara who is the SNP MP for Argyll and Bute asking him what he would do if Scotland became an independent country as he would lose his seat at Westminster.
He replied “We voted as a group in favour of Scotland becoming an independent country”.
Therefore the SNP MPs at Westminster have to do as their leader instructs even if it means losing their job.

No, they comply with party policy they don't do as their leader tells them. The ultimate aim of the SNP is to achieve independence from England's United Kingdom - that's been the aim since its inception. Obviously if Scotland becomes independent it has to surrender its seats in the UK government. That's the way it would have to be and not Sturgeon's order.

Sturgeon isn't only leader of the SNP in Holyrood, she's leader of the SNP. The SNP MPs in Westminster are members of the same SNP that SNP MSPs are members of and they have the same leader. So Westminster MPs have to toe the party line. That's not massively different from the linesman trying to get into Holyrood, he's leader of the scummy Tories in Scotland, and will become an MSP without even trying, however he's still a member of the scummy Conservative party led by the incompetent puppet Boris Johnson.

It's not difficult to understand.

[BCram]

Islay, if you doubt the wisdom of independence, like me, all you can do is ask questions and evaluate the answers. That applies to both sides. Being confrontational seems , to me to be unlikely to change opinions, either way. It will be interesting to see what the final voting totals are forthe different parties. I suspect the SNP vote will be roughly similar to what it has been for years but there will be a bit of a drop for the Conservatives and Lib Dems and a boost for Labour and the Greens.

[eric_sinclair]

Deeranged, what do you think independence will mean for Scotland, and I’m not looking for the normal nonsense, “we will be free from Westminster, we will control our own taxes, we won’t be subsiding the UK”, I’m looking for benefits for each individual, job benefits etc, it’s a genuine question not one to trick you or an argument, I am really struggling to think of any benefits we will see in my lifetime, and selfishly I couldn’t care less about life after I’ve gone

Mibbe Wales will leave first, what happens then.
The bit I can't get my head around is anyone thinking we can't run our own country.
Of course it wud take time but why the hell not?
I'm pretty chilled either way if it happens great if no life goes on.
Benefits I see is make our own decisions good and bad, nae need for war choose our own government to run everything, also being a small country we could even see a new party emerge as imo most we have just now Inc snp are hopeless.
I love going down south, great country and people and will continue to do so.
I vote SNP so we mibbe get a shot at doing it alone, no part oh any cult and only saw braveheart twice.
I respect your opinion poss based on your age and job etc.
Ireland seems a cool place, needed bailed out I know but seems fine now, can we know do the same?
Just a thought

[jdfc]

I'd throw that question right back at you. Why do you think we will be so massively worse off if we were being led by a corrupt Scottish government rather than a corrupt UK one?

I just want Scotland to be recognised as a free and independent country in my lifetime, ideally a republic because I dislike one family having so much wealth and influence whilst effectively doing nothing but existing. I genuinely don't see independence having a massive effect on the individual in the short to medium term (higher earners might need to pay more tax) however longer term I think the individual will benefit from the greater autonomy the nation will have in trade dealings internationally. My hope is that we'd become a more prosperous country or at least be as prosperous as we are now. I've never argued that I know how to achieve that, I leave that to the people that know how to.

My experiences working in England with mostly English but also Scottish, Irish and Welsh counterparts has shaped my thinking about England massively. The constant feeling of superiority that the English demonstrate at close quarters with people of the other UK nations is shocking, and it runs through their entire nation. This affects other nationalities too, the English firmly believe England is superior to all nations. They are a nation that believes England should be for the English and nobody else is welcome.

One thing I will say is that I've not seen too much of that attitude from English people settled here in Scotland, in fact I know plenty that would welcome an independent Scotland. I've said in the past that a good friend of mine who was a Professor of Economics at St. Andrews University was absolutely of the opinion that Scotland would be better off outside of the union - and he was English.

I see a hard border, making travel harder, I see tax rises, higher tariffs added to exports, I fear for my job and many other jobs in Scotland from English owned or based companies

[Deeranged]

I see a hard border, making travel harder, I see tax rises, higher tariffs added to exports, I fear for my job and many other jobs in Scotland from English owned or based companies

Understandable fears, we just don't know for certain.

We all fear the unknown but it takes a little bit of bravery to overcome those fears and once you're over them you can look back and wonder what you were ever worried about.

[jdfc]

Mibbe Wales will leave first, what happens then.
The bit I can't get my head around is anyone thinking we can't run our own country.
Of course it wud take time but why the hell not?
I'm pretty chilled either way if it happens great if no life goes on.
Benefits I see is make our own decisions good and bad, nae need for war choose our own government to run everything, also being a small country we could even see a new party emerge as imo most we have just now Inc snp are hopeless.
I love going down south, great country and people and will continue to do so.
I vote SNP so we mibbe get a shot at doing it alone, no part oh any cult and only saw braveheart twice.
I respect your opinion poss based on your age and job etc.
Ireland seems a cool place, needed bailed out I know but seems fine now, can we know do the same?
Just a thought

Ireland cool, gave you been to Dublin, one of the most expensive places I’ve been,

War ? who are we at war with, we will always need to defend what’s ours, so can’t rule that out, EU through NATO supported Iraq invasions so we’d be part of that

We don’t have our own monetary system so will be controlled by Bank of England or the EU with the euro

This isn’t something that we can turn around a few years down the line if it’s no working, can’t just ask to go back, if you live comfy just now why would you want to gamble it, I know there is plenty poverty in Scotland but the SNP have had 14 years to sort it along with the drug problems, but they’d rather blame Westminster and take the plaudits for free bus passes and prescriptions, which I just don’t get, they hand a 60 year old in full employment free travel, when kids are going hungry, I’d put a £3 fee on prescriptions for employed people, unless the medicine was for life threatening illnesses or life lasting illnesses

[eric_sinclair]

Ireland cool, gave you been to Dublin, one of the most expensive places I’ve been,

War ? who are we at war with, we will always need to defend what’s ours, so can’t rule that out, EU through NATO supported Iraq invasions so we’d be part of that

We don’t have our own monetary system so will be controlled by Bank of England or the EU with the euro

This isn’t something that we can turn around a few years down the line if it’s no working, can’t just ask to go back, if you live comfy just now why would you want to gamble it, I know there is plenty poverty in Scotland but the SNP have had 14 years to sort it along with the drug problems, but they’d rather blame Westminster and take the plaudits for free bus passes and prescriptions, which I just don’t get, they hand a 60 year old in full employment free travel, when kids are going hungry, I’d put a £3 fee on prescriptions for employed people, unless the medicine was for life threatening illnesses or life lasting illnesses

Nae free travel for over 60, s and charge for prescriptions to help poverty, good idea imo and agree the snp need to do better.
Nae trident and nae following the USA into unnecessary wars was my point.
The monetary issue wud need adressesd of course.
Yes it wud be a gamble and I do get your point regarding your job but I thought my job was in doubt due to brexit but its not in doubt at all.
As deranged said sometimes a bit of bravery is needed to make change.

[Deeranged]

Nae free travel for over 60, s and charge for prescriptions to help poverty, good idea imo and agree the snp need to do better.
Nae trident and nae following the USA into unnecessary wars was my point.
The monetary issue wud need adressesd of course.
Yes it wud be a gamble and I do get your point regarding your job but I thought my job was in doubt due to brexit but its not in doubt at all.
As deranged said sometimes a bit of bravery is needed to make change.

I feared for my job as a result of Brexit, I work for a French / American multinational company, but all it's meant in reality is a few more forms to fill out and hoops to jump through to import / export. Being non EU hasn't made any other difference to my work and in fact the forecast increase in orders for 2022 has already started biting now that people have realised the feared restrictions and delays haven't really materialised. That means more jobs rather than fewer jobs.

I'd see independence going the same way, fear and trepidation going into it followed by realisation that at the individual on the street level there's no noticeable change.

I also agree with removing free bus passes for over 60s, in fact I believe all concessions for older people should be removed, and free prescriptions for those that are not chronically ill should also be removed - subsidised yes, but free no.

[jdfc]

Nae free travel for over 60, s and charge for prescriptions to help poverty, good idea imo and agree the snp need to do better.
Nae trident and nae following the USA into unnecessary wars was my point.
The monetary issue wud need adressesd of course.
Yes it wud be a gamble and I do get your point regarding your job but I thought my job was in doubt due to brexit but its not in doubt at all.
As deranged said sometimes a bit of bravery is needed to make change.

Remove trident from Scotland removes around 6000 jobs, if they moved it to England or N Ireland, would make no difference to us if someone pushed the button we all fry