League 1 it is then

[MadAmster]

If GP had expressed that closing sentiment without the question mark I’d have expected it.
From someone like you who has a fully functioning moral compass I’m more puzzled...is the rest of your post explanation or justification...and is the final question mark querying the life expectancy of ‘la difference’?

Merely an attempt at putting facts out there with the first 3 lines.

The 4th was intended to spark thought and discussion, as in, should it be that those in the public sector have different "rules" applied to their earning potential than those in the private sector?

[ramAnag]

This last sentence demonstrates where you still simply just don't get it. Quantuma plc would bill 10500 on your basis, not any individual employee earn it.

Do you think that if you buy a beer for £5 in a pub, the staff member takes home that fiver? No, there are operational costs involved in serving that pint. Same way Q have operating costs.

The 10500 is turnover to Q, not wages for the individual. All the cost of running Q have to be funded out of that, and like, turnover. The individual accountant whose hours generate that fee income may typically be remunerated 3500 for that week.

Actually I do ‘get’ that...but then the nurse working a 40 hour week, as opposed to the thirty hours example of the accountant, would gross just £730.40 in comparison to the £3500 out of £10.5k you speak of. Can that be right?

Moreover I happen to have been talking to an acquaintance of mine who’s currently going through a tricky divorce. I can’t remember which way round it is but one of their solicitors charges £320 per hour while the other charges £350 ph...and yet apparently rape cases are going unheard for months and months because of a shortage of appropriate legal staff.

Something seems horribly wrong to me.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Well I did tell you those were bottom of the market rates for solicitors - even more pricey than accountants.

Ah but the divorce cases are civil and so the fees are paid by and agreed by the two parties. The rape cases would be funded by the crown prosecution service which almost certainly has a different perspective on value for money. Maybe your mate Keir will know .

So back to your comparisons of the poor nurses.

I will compare apples to apples, something you are seemingly incapable of doing. Rather than disingenuously comparing the remuneration of a highly experienced accountant to a lower grade, inexperienced nurse, lets compare pro to pro.

The accountant on 3500 a week - about 170k a year given no holidays, and no pension. This is a senior, experience professional with years of training and work experience under his belt. Someone who has developed a reputation as top of his field. He doesn't just waltz in off the street and get that fee level.

So lets not compare him to a fresh of the street band 4 or 5 nurse with a couple of years experience (https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay) on 35k pa. Rather lets compare to a band 8 nurse (Matron) or even band 9 with at least 5 years experience. Her (or his) salary would be in the region of 100k pa plus a benefits package, pension etc.

Now we are getting there. Two highly skilled, well trained experienced professionals in senior managerial positions, both getting 100k + package for their time. Sure one gets more than the other: is it ever thus - but a very different story than that painted by you. When you want to try to compare salaries, then also compare what individuals bring to the job, not simply roll out the sob story

[Andy_Faber]

Well I did tell you those were bottom of the market rates for solicitors - even more pricey than accountants.

Ah but the divorce cases are civil and so the fees are paid by and agreed by the two parties. The rape cases would be funded by the crown prosecution service which almost certainly has a different perspective on value for money. Maybe your mate Keir will know .

So back to your comparisons of the poor nurses.

I will compare apples to apples, something you are seemingly incapable of doing. Rather than disingenuously comparing the remuneration of a highly experienced accountant to a lower grade, inexperienced nurse, lets compare pro to pro.

The accountant on 3500 a week - about 170k a year given no holidays, and no pension. This is a senior, experience professional with years of training and work experience under his belt. Someone who has developed a reputation as top of his field. He doesn't just waltz in off the street and get that fee level.

So lets not compare him to a fresh of the street band 4 or 5 nurse with a couple of years experience (https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay) on 35k pa. Rather lets compare to a band 8 nurse (Matron) or even band 9 with at least 5 years experience. Her (or his) salary would be in the region of 100k pa plus a benefits package, pension etc.

Now we are getting there. Two highly skilled, well trained experienced professionals in senior managerial positions, both getting 100k + package for their time. Sure one gets more than the other: is it ever thus - but a very different story than that painted by you. When you want to try to compare salaries, then also compare what individuals bring to the job, not simply roll out the sob story

Exactly. I wrote, then deleted a post making the same point last eve but deleted it as I'd already made anumber of points that weren't hitting home

[Andy_Faber]

This last sentence demonstrates where you still simply just don't get it. Quantuma plc would bill 10500 on your basis, not any individual employee earn it.

Do you think that if you buy a beer for £5 in a pub, the staff member takes home that fiver? No, there are operational costs involved in serving that pint. Same way Q have operating costs.

The 10500 is turnover to Q, not wages for the individual. All the cost of running Q have to be funded out of that, and like, turnover. The individual accountant whose hours generate that fee income may typically be remunerated 3500 for that week.

another point I was going to make

[Andy_Faber]

You’ve justified such fees, for accountants, on the basis of supply and demand. There is a shortage of nurses...a shortage which has been exacerbated by the impact of the pandemic on NHS waiting lists. Common sense suggests that if that shortage in supply is to be addressed then there needs to be an improvement in pay and working conditions for nurses. The demand is certainly there and your comment that they ‘AREN’T actually in demand (in the public sector) is something I believe all those waiting for already delayed hip operations, cancer treatment, heart ops etc would find offensive.

Sorry rA but I tried hard to explain that the wage ceiling imposed directly by HMG but indirectly by the electorate mean that there is only a demand (for,in my example, new entrants but it applies throughout) at £9.21 an hour, there is NO demand at £9.22 and above because that's the maximum allowed. And because many people won't offer their services at £9.21 and taxpayers won't fund an increase, a gap arises. Now, as a pensioner you and your cohort, if you were REALLY bothered, could volunteer to contribute to an increase in that £9.21 by agreeing to permanently decline the triple lock on pensions, HMG might have funds to do so then. MA made a similar point more concisely.

[ramAnag]

Well I did tell you those were bottom of the market rates for solicitors - even more pricey than accountants.

Ah but the divorce cases are civil and so the fees are paid by and agreed by the two parties. The rape cases would be funded by the crown prosecution service which almost certainly has a different perspective on value for money. Maybe your mate Keir will know .

So back to your comparisons of the poor nurses.

I will compare apples to apples, something you are seemingly incapable of doing. Rather than disingenuously comparing the remuneration of a highly experienced accountant to a lower grade, inexperienced nurse, lets compare pro to pro.

The accountant on 3500 a week - about 170k a year given no holidays, and no pension. This is a senior, experience professional with years of training and work experience under his belt. Someone who has developed a reputation as top of his field. He doesn't just waltz in off the street and get that fee level.

So lets not compare him to a fresh of the street band 4 or 5 nurse with a couple of years experience (https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay) on 35k pa. Rather lets compare to a band 8 nurse (Matron) or even band 9 with at least 5 years experience. Her (or his) salary would be in the region of 100k pa plus a benefits package, pension etc.

Now we are getting there. Two highly skilled, well trained experienced professionals in senior managerial positions, both getting 100k + package for their time. Sure one gets more than the other: is it ever thus - but a very different story than that painted by you. When you want to try to compare salaries, then also compare what individuals bring to the job, not simply roll out the sob story

There’s really no ‘sob story’ from me, I’m just asking you, and others, to consider whether society’s values are not just a little skewed but I can see I’m wasting my time.
It was you who cited the example of Quantuma’s representatives earning up to £350 per hour...I simply queried whether this represented good value and money well spent in relation to other occupations which, imo, offer more than accountancy.
I very much doubt there are many nurses (or matrons) earning the type of salary you suggest however we rarely agree...that’s been evident over many political issues from Gavin Williamson’s capabilities to Boris Johnson’s fitness to lead our country...from Brexit to migrants and now the distribution of wealth and the relative earning power of various professions.
C’est la vie...thank God we haven’t got as far as Angela Rayner’s legs!

[Geoff Parkstone]

2 points. (1) I never stated a Q employee earned that, but rather that was what Q charge out rates were. The difference was clearly too nuanced for you, and still seems to be. (2) You may doubt that there are many healthcare staff earning 100k plus, but, see link, those are the pay scale rates

[Trickytreesreds]

There’s really no ‘sob story’ from me, I’m just asking you, and others, to consider whether society’s values are not just a little skewed but I can see I’m wasting my time.
It was you who cited the example of Quantuma’s representatives earning up to £350 per hour...I simply queried whether this represented good value and money well spent in relation to other occupations which, imo, offer more than accountancy.
I very much doubt there are many nurses (or matrons) earning the type of salary you suggest however we rarely agree...that’s been evident over many political issues from Gavin Williamson’s capabilities to Boris Johnson’s fitness to lead our country...from Brexit to migrants and now the distribution of wealth and the relative earning power of various professions.
C’est la vie...thank God we haven’t got as far as Angela Rayner’s legs!

Why not? Most of Manchester did.

[DCFCArmy]

Ive told you all before its fixed b0llocks

Just watch bournemouth here ffs, just gifting Huddersfield or Forest a auto spot