O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[KerrAvon]

Do you think,hand on heart, that Parliament will allow that to happen?

Key question (come on! you can do it!): with May returning, shock horror, empty handed from Brussels and with her only deal on the table (you know, the one that you supported) being hugely defeated in the commons, what would you personally like to see happen now?

(I've answered this tonight and been up for the stick so why shouldn't you? (as ever, I know why you won't, and I think most boys and girls reading this do too!)) x

How do you suppose that Parliament can block a no deal exit? The power to do so is not in their hands.

You may recall getting very excited earlier in the thread and posting a link to a Guardian article that said that Labour were planning a move in Parliament to block a no deal outcome. I pointed out that it was impossible. What became of the Labour plan?

At the present time, UK law and the terms of our Article 50 notification says that we leave at 11 pm on 29th March. Neither specify that we are required to have deal for that to happen and when parliament passed the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 it passed a clause that became Section 20(4)(a) which reads:

A Minister of the Crown may by regulations amend the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1) to ensure that the day and time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom

In other words the government can alter the exit date but Parliament can’t (you will recall that Yvette Cooper’s attempt to introduce primary legislation to circumvent that little problemette failed). And even if we ask to extend to agree a deal, that would require the unanimous support of the other EU countries, some of which do little trade with the UK and are probably fed up of the whole thing (but, in reality, would probably bow to German pressure to agree). If we leave on the 29th March, parliament will either have agreed a deal or it won’t and there is only one deal on the table.

See above for what we should do now.

[Exiletyke]

Ok so we leave with no deal to trade under WTO regulation. In this situation we will not have made any of the trade rules, we have no influence iver how those trade laws are made and the final court of arbitration is in Switzerland not the UK.

Explain how that brings sovereignty back to the UK?

Maybe it does away with free movement (but that works both ways as a huge number of Brits enjoy the freedom to live wherever they want within the EU).

74,000 more EU citizens came to the UK than people leaving for other EU countries.29 Nov 2018

[gm_gm]

These are some of the levers I mentioned a while ago...interresting read

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...an-kick-start/

[Exiletyke]

To be fair, you did start out by making numerous posts that suggested that the self-contradictory six conditions that Labour talked about were not actually Labour Party policy, but were, in fact, some sort of weird political game.

You then decided that you were a fan of the truly awful Norway model.

Your position then morphed into that you weren’t: suggesting that we remain in the SM and CU, but that we have a deal that aligns with it, that takes in some benefits but obviously makes some concessions. In return, we ask for concessions from them on FoM and ECJ. When repeatedly pressed upon what you meant by alignment you eventually admitted, in terms, that you hadn’t got a clue because you were a drama graduate...

More recently you have adopted a very soft Brexit (back to Norway?) that you say reflects the very close nature of the vote with the alignment that you can’t explain creeping back in.

So no, I don’t know that you’ve argued the same line throughout.

I don’t agree that we should give ground on FoM and the ECJ. Whatever you or I might think about it, FoM was quite clearly the largest driver for Leave voters and the Leave vote won the referendum. I don’t think that it would or should be politically acceptable to ignore that in a clumsy attempt to try to ‘reflect the closeness of the vote’.

Your position on the ECJ seems a bit confused. Yesterday (post 1279) you reproduced a Left wing blog that you said summed everything up nicely for you. The opening sentence of that criticised the May deal, saying that it would mean that the UK would effectively remains in the EU without representation. And yet your position, about 12 hours later appears to be that you want exactly that. You want the UK to be subject to EU produced law over which we would have no say enforced by a court that we are not members of. With all due respect, what that sums up for me is that you don’t have clue what you are talking about and that you are just regurgitating whatever comes in on your Momentum twitter feed.

What we should do now is what is being done by Geoffrey Cox, which is an attempt to time limit the backstop or incorporate into it a mechanism by which we can unilaterally leave. Given that the UK parliament and the EU seem to be playing a game of chicken on the issue, we also need to step up preparations for a no deal exit by seeking a series of temporary mini-deals on issues such as air travel and policing and security.

We must complete a mini deal on air travel so that your planned skiing trip can go ahead unfettered. Oh yes top priority
You may have to make do however with a trip to the Tamworth Snow Dome although it will mean mixing with some from the lower reaches

[KerrAvon]

Are you for real Kerr
Cameron did not call the Referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46891771


Speaking to the BBC as he headed off for a run as he headed off for a run on Wednesday morning, he said: "I hope she wins the vote tonight, I'm sure she will.

"I hope then that Parliament can come together and find an alternative partnership agreement with the European Union, that's the right way forward, that's what her deal was about last night and she has my support as she does this."

Asked if regretted calling the referendum, he said: "I don't regret calling the referendum - it was a promise I made two years before the 2015 general election - it was included in the manifesto, it was legislated for in parliament - six out of seven members of all parties voted for that referendum.

"Obviously I regret that we lost the referendum - I deeply regret that - I was leading the campaign to stay in the European Union and obviously I regret the difficulties and the problems we've been having trying to implement the result of that referendum.But I don't think it's going to be helped by me giving a running commentary.
Your boy certainly seems to prefer running

Cameron didn’t call the referendum. He had no power to do so. The facts are these:

The Tories included a promise of a referendum in their 2015 manifesto;
The electorate returned a Tory government on that manifesto;
That government kept its promise and introduced the Referendum Bill (it was actually introduced by Phillip Hammond of all people);
Parliament passed the Referendum Bill, which became the Referendum Act 2015.

Your position seemed confused as you are a staunch leaver but appear upset that the Referendum Act was enacted. Surely you should be happy, however it came about?

For my part, I think a referendum was inevitable. The EU is moving to ever closer integration and, ultimately a federal Europe. That is apparent from such things as Schengen, the creation of n EU army and, of course, the Euro. The UK has always seen the EU as primarily a trade organisation and has resisted closer political and social integration. It was always a matter of time before the tension that created came to a head for both the UK (UKIP took the highest number of votes of any UK party in the 2014 European elections) or for the EU itself which was becoming a two track organisation.

Running is good for both physical and mental health. You should try it.

[KerrAvon]

We must complete a mini deal on air travel so that your planned skiing trip can go ahead unfettered. Oh yes top priority
You may have to make do however with a trip to the Tamworth Snow Dome although it will mean mixing with some from the lower reaches

I'm flying tomorrow so am unlikley to be affected by Brexit. I think the importance of ensuring that we have access to European airspace and vice versa extends beyond my personal convenience, however.

[KerrAvon]

These are some of the levers I mentioned a while ago...interresting read

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...an-kick-start/

Eminently sensible.

[Exiletyke]

I'm flying tomorrow so am unlikley to be affected by Brexit. I think the importance of ensuring that we have access to European airspace and vice versa extends beyond my personal convenience, however.

Yeah right
I don't think anything extends beyond your personal convenience
Perhaps it might make your return trip more difficult
One can only live in hope

[KerrAvon]

You are just being silly and rude now, Exile.

[Exiletyke]

You are just being silly and rude now, Exile.

So glad to have been of service
Now what's that saying they use in the acting profession?