League 1 it is then

[ramAnag]

2 points. (1) I never stated a Q employee earned that, but rather that was what Q charge out rates were. The difference was clearly too nuanced for you, and still seems to be. (2) You may doubt that there are many healthcare staff earning 100k plus, but, see link, those are the pay scale rates

1) Accepted...you didn’t, you spoke of ‘blended rates’. Not too nuanced...but I accept your clarification.
2) There’s a big difference between nurses and ‘healthcare staff’. The link didn’t work...just says ‘The resource cannot be found’.

[Andy_Faber]

I’m just asking you, and others, to consider whether society’s values are not just a little skewed

1. I for one agree

2. Its how the world is, the whole world just about, and has been for a long long time

3. We have been trying to explain how things work, please explain how you'd fund a significant (lets say 50%) increase in a typical private sector (lets say lorry drivers) and public sector (lets say midwives) employees pay. I'm genuinely interested, your only response to the repeated explanations from GEEP and myself has been 'its not fair' so please - fund fairness

[swaledale]

Well that at least is the most polite and intelligible defence of the administrators and accountants generally.
I do still have to ASK though (NOT ‘protest’ or think I know best)...what were the accountants doing when DCFC went tits up and ran up their astronomical debts to HMRC amongst others...and would we not be better off with a more straightforward and transparent financial system making understanding the ‘finer points’/loopholes/legality less necessary?

As I said earlier...we currently seem to be in the same position, in terms of negotiations, as we were just before Christmas, and yet we simultaneously seem to be a lot worse off with a weaker ‘squad’ and relegation guaranteed. Does that represent good value on the part of the administrators?

Well rA there are a number of possible answers to that, AF has provided you with some, but basically like all paid advisers, they can only advise, in the end he who pays the piper gets the tune he wants.

Of course if what is being asked for is illegal then the adviser, be that lawyer, accountant or whoever should refuse and in all probability resign or be sacked as an adviser, but as has been seen elsewhere those dependent upon a contract aren't always willing to object in these circumstances - I'm not in any way suggesting that the previous advisers did anything illegal just to be clear. Their advice may just have been ignored.

Its not unusual for a business to have debts build up in times of stress, with a view to future income streams eventually servicing that debt. I obviously don't know the full ins and outs, but doubtless Covid, resulted in a drastic loss of income up which the financing of the club depended. Yes one could say that putting the club in that position was reckless, but then if the gamble had worked and Derby had been promoted to the premier league, the model would have been seen to have worked.

In respect of your point about the work of the administrators, they may not have had any control over the situation, if CK pulled out and none of the other bids were acceptable, what could they do? They have at least kept the club in existence and operating until eventually a buyer has made an acceptable offer.

Without knowing all the ins and outs its impossible to judge, IF we still have a club albeit in league 1, but without a further pts penalty come next season, then yes they have been value for money.

[ramAnag]

Well rA there are a number of possible answers to that, AF has provided you with some, but basically like all paid advisers, they can only advise, in the end he who pays the piper gets the tune he wants.

Of course if what is being asked for is illegal then the adviser, be that lawyer, accountant or whoever should refuse and in all probability resign or be sacked as an adviser, but as has been seen elsewhere those dependent upon a contract aren't always willing to object in these circumstances - I'm not in any way suggesting that the previous advisers did anything illegal just to be clear. Their advice may just have been ignored.

Its not unusual for a business to have debts build up in times of stress, with a view to future income streams eventually servicing that debt. I obviously don't know the full ins and outs, but doubtless Covid, resulted in a drastic loss of income up which the financing of the club depended. Yes one could say that putting the club in that position was reckless, but then if the gamble had worked and Derby had been promoted to the premier league, the model would have been seen to have worked.

In respect of your point about the work of the administrators, they may not have had any control over the situation, if CK pulled out and none of the other bids were acceptable, what could they do? They have at least kept the club in existence and operating until eventually a buyer has made an acceptable offer.

Without knowing all the ins and outs its impossible to judge, IF we still have a club albeit in league 1, but without a further pts penalty come next season, then yes they have been value for money.

As you say, Swale...we, none of us, know all the ‘ins and outs’ and I don’t have the expertise of you, GP or AF in this area.
I am however disappointed that, strictly in relation to DCFC, we appeared to be in a position five months ago to do business with CK.
I don’t know what’s happened since then apart from a collection of dead ends, false dawns, missed opportunities and terminated contracts that have cost us (DCFC) a great deal.
Now we appear to be on the brink of doing a deal with CK again, as we were before Christmas. I’m not sure who’s benefited from that huge hiatus apart from Quantuma. I may be wrong but I’m fairly sure it’s not DCFC.

[ramAnag]

1. I for one agree

2. Its how the world is, the whole world just about, and has been for a long long time

3. We have been trying to explain how things work, please explain how you'd fund a significant (lets say 50%) increase in a typical private sector (lets say lorry drivers) and public sector (lets say midwives) employees pay. I'm genuinely interested, your only response to the repeated explanations from GEEP and myself has been 'its not fair' so please - fund fairness

Well at least you agree, that’s a start.
You’re right, I do talk about the ‘unfairness’ of aspects of society while you, and GP, repeatedly argue, ‘that’s the way the world is...that’s how things are’ as if that is some sort of answer.
I guess my answer is we have to become less selfish and accept that taxes have to rise.
If we want better and safer roads, a better health service, better care for the elderly and those with mental health issues, better schools and public transport etc we have to fund them properly.
Personally I’d be ‘happy’ to pay higher taxes - if I knew they were to be targeted properly - and as we’ve seen recently, eg with investment in vaccines, money spent on furlough or directed to arming Ukraine, it is amazing what money can be found when it has to be.
Whether I trust the current government to raise such taxes fairly and spend it wisely is a wholly different question. I don’t...and the number of recent ‘kickbacks’ that have already been suggested as benefitting government officials and their families is a large part of the reason why...but ultimately higher taxes raised fairly in terms of those who can afford to pay the most and directed properly is the obvious answer.

[MadAmster]

Ive told you all before its fixed b0llocks

Just watch Bournemouth here ffs, just gifting Huddersfield or Forest a auto spot

That's good, even for you. The Cherries giving up their automatic spot to help the terriers or the Red Dogs.

Even you should realise how utterly stupid that statement is.

[DCFCArmy]

Im gonna find it amusing if forest go up just from an hypocrisy point of view

For years now ive listened to them whine about premiership monopoly money stopping clubs like themselves having a shot at promotion, calling parachute payments a “cheat syestem”

Watch as they do a 180 and defend these things and even gloat about having it theyll even mock clubs like ours for being “paupers”

Society is one big hypocrit and fickle thats all their is to it

[Trickytreesreds]

Im gonna find it amusing if forest go up just from an hypocrisy point of view

For years now ive listened to them whine about premiership monopoly money stopping clubs like themselves having a shot at promotion, calling parachute payments a “cheat syestem”

Watch as they do a 180 and defend these things and even gloat about having it theyll even mock clubs like ours for being “paupers”

Society is one big hypocrit and fickle thats all their is to it

You sniff glue don't you?

Derby fans thought the parachute payments were brilliant on their relegation.
Unfortunately, when you don't come back within 2 years, the reality bites.
Loads of you laughed at others being ot of pocket, or perhaps it skipped your memory?

Personally, the parachute payments are a farce, as a relegated club is among the favourites to bounce straight back if they can hang on to players.
However, the Prem payments are as well.
I don't think I ever saw you moaning, when you was a recipient of the riches DCFCA.
In fact if your morals are correct, why do derby ever try to get promoted at all?

It's you that smacks of hypocrisy.

[DCFCArmy]

I knew youd turn up with that one so ill go further with the hypocrisy line

Back before we played Villa in the po final there were Derby fans who were gloating about pocketing all that prem money and becoming the next Norwich or Fulham who were taking the money and just yo yoing. Ive hated the prem money and what its done, which is why i want to nreak away and set up their money bubble and leave the rest of us alone ffs

Now theres Derby fans whining about the prem money ruining the game

The thing is its all bad when you aint getting some of the pie, the game is finished etc etc

But you give them some of the pie and they soon change their tune and start gloating and calling the other fans who question it “jealous”

The hypocrisy is disgustingly cringe but thats society in a nutshell innit

[DCFCArmy]

I wasnt on these forums the last time we were in the prem or even the first two seasons of Clough after that season

And the parachute payments didnt exist then, and the windfall was a lot smaller something like 60 million

Im gonna enjoy the hypocrisy of the forest lot when they go up its gonna be fun