O/T:- Betting odds for US Election [The USA Politics Thread]

[Lullapie]

In the long run, this may be the kick up the arse the Dems (and the left in general) need to bring them back from the brink of madness. A wake up call of sorts. The sheer arrogance to think they could just choose a black woman as their candidate and that would be enough, regardless of her ability or credibility. That they could just pay rotten A-list celebrities to talk at her rallies and that would be enough. That people would vote for more of the same managed decline of a once great country - and calling the opposition Hitler would be enough.

Again, I'm not a fan of Trump by any means, but the Dems are rotten to the core.

Excellent post.

[maddogslater]

Yeah great post slack, fully agree with you. "Get me a glass of water " Obama was never any good, now looks like a sour loser.

[tripie]

Haven't the Tories just done the same thing? This really isn't about the left. Listen to what Bernie Sanders has to say about the current state of the Democrats. You might remember him as a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination for 2020 before Biden pushed him out of the way with the help of powerful friends.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bern...y?id=115582079

Whatever you might think of her, there was due process to KBs selection. KH was just railroaded in because the decision to drop Biden was taken too late.

[BigFatPie]

In the long run, this may be the kick up the arse the Dems (and the left in general) need to bring them back from the brink of madness. A wake up call of sorts. The sheer arrogance to think they could just choose a black woman as their candidate and that would be enough, regardless of her ability or credibility. That they could just pay rotten A-list celebrities to talk at her rallies and that would be enough. That people would vote for more of the same managed decline of a once great country - and calling the opposition Hitler would be enough.

Again, I'm not a fan of Trump by any means, but the Dems are rotten to the core.

Talking about the ‘madness’ of one side when the other has just put up and elected an adjudicated rapist and convicted criminal as president is insane.

The dems can very much be accused of complacency imo but to say Harris was only chosen because she was black is hugely racist and speaks volumes why you spend so much time on here as an apologist for Trump while all the time not having the cajones to admit being a ‘fan’.

[slack_pie]

Talking about the ‘madness’ of one side when the other has just put up and elected an adjudicated rapist and convicted criminal as president is insane.

The dems can very much be accused of complacency imo but to say Harris was only chosen because she was black is hugely racist and speaks volumes why you spend so much time on here as an apologist for Trump while all the time not having the cajones to admit being a ‘fan’.

Ah, using the "racist" card - very on-brand. Biden openly admitted that he'd pick a woman as VP before he selected Harris. He also explicitly said he would pick a black woman "for the courts".

https://time.com/5803677/joe-biden-w...ice-president/

If you don't think demographics played a role in Harris being chosen as the Dems' candidate, you are very naive. Put it this way - given Harris's inability to articulate basic points or demonstrate basic leadership qualities, do you think she'd have been the Dems pick if she was a white male?

Also, if I liked Trump the man, I'd admit it. Why wouldn't I? You suggesting I'm too afraid to merely speaks to the entrenched view that people on the left have that they are the good guys and those on the right are all nasty. I like some of Trump's policies (not all of them), and I rate some of the team he's assembled. But do I like him as a person? Nope, and for obvious reasons.

[Bohinen]

If you don't think demographics played a role in Harris being chosen as the Dems' candidate, you are very naive. Put it this way - given Harris's inability to articulate basic points or demonstrate basic leadership qualities, do you think she'd have been the Dems pick if she was a white male?

Well, Biden had a far worse inability to articulate basic points or demonstrate basic leadership qualities and they picked him in 2020, mainly because he wasn't Bernie Sanders.

You like so many others, mainly on the right but also on the left, seem obsessed with the idea this was a left/right contest, when really it wasn't. On some aspects of economic policy and certainly on foreign policy, Trump is further left than Biden. That he might actually intervene and stop the utterly pointless Ukraine war is not 'right-wing' is it? Left-wingers like Sanders and Corbyn have the exact same policy. Where Trump is 'right-wing'. if you must call it that (it's more authoritarian really), it is on social issues like abortion, trans-rights etc, but are they what matter most to ordinary working people? The election results suggest not, whether that offends us or not.

Here's some evidence ... (tip for the GB News viewers amongst us, it's OK, the Spectator is generally right-wing)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...ng-than-biden/

Is Trump more left-wing than Biden? The President has a surprising capacity for progressive-sounding political analysis.

A leftist anti-Trumper I may be, but I’ve been strangely impressed by the President’s capacity for perfectly credible, progressive–sounding political analysis, especially on the trade issues that sometimes bring together on common ground right-wing nationalists and left-wing defenders of labour rights. That an estimated eight million Obama voters chose Trump in 2016, and more than 200,000 Bernie Sanders supporters voted for him in the three crucial Midwestern states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, testifies to his appeal among a portion of the disaffected working class who cannot simply be written off as racist, right-wing or lunatic.

[slack_pie]

Well, Biden had a far worse inability to articulate basic points or demonstrate basic leadership qualities and they picked him in 2020, mainly because he wasn't Bernie Sanders.

You like so many others, mainly on the right but also on the left, seem obsessed with the idea this was a left/right contest, when really it wasn't. On some aspects of economic policy and certainly on foreign policy, Trump is further left than Biden. That he might actually intervene and stop the utterly pointless Ukraine war is not 'right-wing' is it? Left-wingers like Sanders and Corbyn have the exact same policy. Where Trump is 'right-wing'. if you must call it that (it's more authoritarian really), it is on social issues like abortion, trans-rights etc, but are they what matter most to ordinary working people? The election results suggest not, whether that offends us or not.

Here's some evidence ... (tip for the GB News viewers amongst us, it's OK, the Spectator is generally right-wing)

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...ng-than-biden/

Is Trump more left-wing than Biden? The President has a surprising capacity for progressive-sounding political analysis.

A leftist anti-Trumper I may be, but I’ve been strangely impressed by the President’s capacity for perfectly credible, progressive–sounding political analysis, especially on the trade issues that sometimes bring together on common ground right-wing nationalists and left-wing defenders of labour rights. That an estimated eight million Obama voters chose Trump in 2016, and more than 200,000 Bernie Sanders supporters voted for him in the three crucial Midwestern states of Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, testifies to his appeal among a portion of the disaffected working class who cannot simply be written off as racist, right-wing or lunatic.

You are right, I am absolutely obsessed with the idea that this was a left-right contest. Like so many others. Thanks for pointing that out.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but you've missed out a few key points. Trump is more right wing than Biden/Harris when it comes to his views on the size and role of the state and the scope of bureaucracy and regulation. He has a slight libertarian streak in this regard, whereas the Biden/Harris and the Dems instinctively want to control stuff.

[Lullapie]

You are right, I am absolutely obsessed with the idea that this was a left-right contest. Like so many others. Thanks for pointing that out.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but you've missed out a few key points. Trump is more right wing than Biden/Harris when it comes to his views on the size and role of the state and the scope of bureaucracy and regulation. He has a slight libertarian streak in this regard, whereas the Biden/Harris and the Dems instinctively want to control stuff.

Trump threatens, but doesn't always do. He is more intelligent, in my opinion, than most politicians because he knows how to get what he wants and what he wants is what politics throughout the world is lacking - common sense. I am a Libertarian, that's why people like Trump appeal to me.

I reckon, and I've said this before, that the modern day left aren't what us oldies remember. They are agenda and ideology driven. This has pushed them further left around the political spectrum making their policies unworkable - only ideological.

This in turn has left a massive vacuum on the centre-left, which has been filled in the US by the MAGA movement. Republicans like Cheney (and his lovely wife) and the others that jumped ship couldn't care less about workers. They just focus on growing their own personal wealth. They went in balls deep with the party of the billionaires and joined the Democrats.

[BigFatPie]

Ah, using the "racist" card - very on-brand. Biden openly admitted that he'd pick a woman as VP before he selected Harris. He also explicitly said he would pick a black woman "for the courts".

https://time.com/5803677/joe-biden-w...ice-president/

If you don't think demographics played a role in Harris being chosen as the Dems' candidate, you are very naive. Put it this way - given Harris's inability to articulate basic points or demonstrate basic leadership qualities, do you think she'd have been the Dems pick if she was a white male?

Also, if I liked Trump the man, I'd admit it. Why wouldn't I? You suggesting I'm too afraid to merely speaks to the entrenched view that people on the left have that they are the good guys and those on the right are all nasty. I like some of Trump's policies (not all of them), and I rate some of the team he's assembled. But do I like him as a person? Nope, and for obvious reasons.

The link you posted doesn’t say anything about ‘a black woman’. So before you claim I’m playing the race card, it was you who brought it up.

Like other right wing dingbats on here you didn’t reply to my actual post you replied to one in your head. I’ll repeat, to glibly talk like you did about the ‘madness’ of the Dems and how ‘they’re rotten to the core’ when the Republicans for the third time have nominated and again elected a rapist a criminal and a white supremacist is insane. ‘Like’ or ‘dislike’ is irrelevant.

Unlike you apparently I don’t know enough about Kamala Harris to know whether she would have made a decent president or not, but I know she isn’t a rapist, a criminal or a white supremacist so had I vote in the US she would have got it for those reasons. She also didn’t claim to win an election she clearly lost. I would have thought anyone with a shred of decency would agree.

Now the election is finished we can all watch how Trump will shaft not only the people who didn’t vote for him but also the ones who did, especially the poorer ones. Donald Trump is interested in one thing and that’s Donald Trump.

[slack_pie]

The link you posted doesn’t say anything about ‘a black woman’. So before you claim I’m playing the race card, it was you who brought it up.

Like other right wing dingbats on here you didn’t reply to my actual post you replied to one in your head. I’ll repeat, to glibly talk like you did about the ‘madness’ of the Dems and how ‘they’re rotten to the core’ when the Republicans for the third time have nominated and again elected a rapist a criminal and a white supremacist is insane. ‘Like’ or ‘dislike’ is irrelevant.

Unlike you apparently I don’t know enough about Kamala Harris to know whether she would have made a decent president or not, but I know she isn’t a rapist, a criminal or a white supremacist so had I vote in the US she would have got it for those reasons. She also didn’t claim to win an election she clearly lost. I would have thought anyone with a shred of decency would agree.

Now the election is finished we can all watch how Trump will shaft not only the people who didn’t vote for him but also the ones who did, especially the poorer ones. Donald Trump is interested in one thing and that’s Donald Trump.

Not the best link I guess. Try this one instead:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/28/p...ick/index.html

Biden literally said: “Whomever I pick, preferably it will be someone who was of color and/or a different gender."

I'm not interested in getting into an argument about this. My point is simply that demographics almost certainly played a key role in Biden making Harris VP and then her becoming the presidential candidate. Me pointing out that this was likely a factor in their decision-making doesn't make me racist. The left loves to make things about race and gender.

As for the madness of the Dems - I'm talking about policies here primarily. A lot of people clearly feel the same, so it's unsurprising that most people voted for a party offering change and not more of the same. This doesn't mean I like Trump or am happy about the stuff you've mentioned.

As for what happens in a Trump presidency - I guess we'll have to wait and see. It's not like Biden and the Dems haven't been shafting Americans for years either.