O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Trickytreesreds]

I know you're desperate to talk yourself out of an awkward situation, but where do you get this **** from.

Prince Phillip has been a British subject since 1947 and yes we know he was born in Greece. By your twisted logic, Cliff Richard, Joe strummer, Spike Milligan, Audrey Hepburn, John Barnes, Terry Butcher and JRR tolkein for Gods sake aren't British. Not to mention millions of ordinary folk who who were born overseas yet identify as British.

HMQ is British and was born in London. Where do you get German from?

This just amplifies the suspicion not only about selective xenophobia but also a twisted anti-royal streak. I would take a break if I were you

It is selective. By his logic, all "immigrants " in the UK since WW2 are not British then?
Born here or not?
That is selective xenophobia and racist.

[swaledale]

I know you're desperate to talk yourself out of an awkward situation, but where do you get this **** from.

Prince Phillip has been a British subject since 1947 and yes we know he was born in Greece. By your twisted logic, Cliff Richard, Joe strummer, Spike Milligan, Audrey Hepburn, John Barnes, Terry Butcher and JRR tolkein for Gods sake aren't British. Not to mention millions of ordinary folk who who were born overseas yet identify as British.

HMQ is British and was born in London. Where do you get German from?

This just amplifies the suspicion not only about selective xenophobia but also a twisted anti-royal streak. I would take a break if I were you

I'm not in an awkward situation except through the very narrow perspective you have on life. Though its clear that actually you don't understand what I'm saying.

Interestingly I did not discuss citizenship and that shows only to clearly misunderstanding of the argument I was making, a person is a British citizen irrespective of original nationality, which apparently is acceptable to many Brexit and people with right wing views if their "Royal" but not acceptable if they are an ordinary citizen.

In actual fact immigration has been a force for good for the Uk, yes there are some immigrants who aren't, just as there are many "native" brits who frankly the country wouldn't miss and again those double standards apply. Its pure hypocrisy.

Kings and queens are symbols of national unity. For royalists they even embody the nation. Yet they have rarely been thoroughgoing members of the nation or nations over which they reign. This is because from at least the early Middle Ages royals have chosen or been required to marry other royals, who have been almost inevitably foreigners. In truth they are a separate entity, much of it manufactured to suit circumstances.

The House of Windsor is really the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. One hundred years ago this summer, in July 1917, George V issued a proclamation larded with many a “whereas” and “declare” to announce that henceforth all male descendants of Queen Victoria were to be known by the new surname of “Windsor”. George’s cousin, the German Kaiser, remarked that he was looking forward to watching a performance of “The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg”.

I mean com eon, you can't say the Royals represent 100's of years of history and then conveniently overlook parts of it because it doesn't suit a particular narrative.

So to repeat my point clearly its very ironic that very people who are often ardent royalists are the ones that make such a fuss about immigration and the so called "threat" of immigrants to the country. I mean all this fuss about Meghan and a mixed race American joining a family composed of a bloodline that has been drawn from all over europe, just shows that double standard.

Twisted anti Royal sentiment, mm I've nothing against the royals per se, its the institution I object to and I'm puzzled how a self proclaimed Christian can find the idea of superiority of one family purely by accident of birth an acceptable concept?

I don't recollect Jesus being quoted as saying "And lo there shall be a class of men whom God will favour over others and all others shall be subservient to them!"

Surely a mature democracy should have abandoned the Monarchy by now, or is it just that in reality many British are a paradoxical mix of thinking they are the "greatest people on earth" whilst at the same time have a need to be subservient to their so called "betters". We should respect people irrespective of their origin or so called status in life, but as a society we seem hung up on class and the thieving aristocracy which as history shows obtained their land and wealth by royal patronage, that land having very often been removed from the control and ownership of poor people.

It wouldn't be so bad if the Royals had actually entered the 20th century, (its a step too far to expect them to enter the current cenury) as others have done in say Norway or The Netherlands, but frankly the sooner we ditch the Monarchy and become and more equal egalitarian nation the better.

[ramAnag]

I take your point...ultimately we won’t ever manage to vaccinate 100% of any population as there will always be some who fall through the net, either for reasons connected with other health concerns, mistrust of the vaccine, or simply because they are ‘off the grid’.

That isn’t really the point though...the aim has to be to maximise the number vaccinated and not just in the West but across the whole World.

[Andy_Faber]

So we are back to agreeing. But tell me what alternative use you would have put our 30 million vaccination doses to, I don't mean idealistically, I mean actually, December 2020 to now. Remember there are no 'extra' vaccines around

[Geoff Parkstone]

I have nearly 100 posts on this thread and over 7000 on the Brexit thread where you have consistently adopted a one eyed a to UK government stance. Pick any one of those as evidence

[ramAnag]

Well done you...I never realised that being critical of the Government equated to being critical of the UK and I’d be astonished if your figures are correct for the Brexit thread but again...being critical of Brexit, the Tory Party or the Government is not the same as being critical of the UK or whatever ‘Team UK’ is meant to mean.

Happily put my hand up to being critical of Williamson, Patel, Gove and Johnson etc...but largely because I want something better than incompetents and liars to run the UK.

Wouldn’t say we ‘agree’, Andy. I’ve just accepted that universal vaccination in it’s most literal form is too idealistic. The aim remains for as many as possible to be vaccinated across the World as soon as possible which will include accessing or persuading those described as ‘difficult to reach’.

[MadAmster]

In the interests of balance, rA has, quite rightly so IMO, lambasted the government for everything that has gone wrong in this saga.

He has also given them plaudits for the two things they got right, getting the finacial package in place/tweaking it in the face of changing circumstances and the vaccination process.

I fail to see how rA getting the balance right can be slated as much as it is.

[Andy_Faber]

In the interests of balance, rA has, quite rightly so IMO, lambasted the government for everything that has gone wrong in this saga.

He has also given them plaudits for the two things they got right, getting the finacial package in place/tweaking it in the face of changing circumstances and the vaccination process.

I fail to see how rA getting the balance right can be slated as much as it is.

There's few enough of us involved here that any slating appears in higher relief than it should, hopefully rA sees my interaction as not slating, I tend to reserve that for Swale

[ramAnag]

Thanks MA...tbh the ‘argument’ with AF is a reasonable one, and I’m only getting ‘slated’ by two others...one of whom, as you’ve had experience of yourself, often just likes to make ‘mischief’, and the other one of whom is too daft to take any notice of.

I’m watching Marr at the moment. Again the Mail is apparently delighting in making anti EU capital out of the vaccine. I just despair at the mixture of unhelpful triumphalism, nationalism and political selfishness - on all sides - that is ruining the vaccination process at the moment.

As an aside...things in the USA have seemed very quiet since Biden took over. As you know I have family over there including a son with an ‘underlying health issue’. He has had two jabs (both Pfizer) in the last month (exactly three weeks apart compared with our 12). I’m not holding the USA up as a role model to the rest of the World...it isn’t...but they do seem to be just getting on with it at the moment without any of the ludicrous ‘vaccine nationalism’.

[Trickytreesreds]

Thanks MA...tbh the ‘argument’ with AF is a reasonable one, and I’m only getting ‘slated’ by two others...one of whom, as you’ve had experience of yourself, often just likes to make ‘mischief’, and the other one of whom is too daft to take any notice of.

I’m watching Marr at the moment. Again the Mail is apparently delighting in making anti EU capital out of the vaccine. I just despair at the mixture of unhelpful triumphalism, nationalism and political selfishness - on all sides - that is ruining the vaccination process at the moment.

As an aside...things in the USA have seemed very quiet since Biden took over. As you know I have family over there including a son with an ‘underlying health issue’. He has had two jabs (both Pfizer) in the last month (exactly three weeks apart compared with our 12). I’m not holding the USA up as a role model to the rest of the World...it isn’t...but they do seem to be just getting on with it at the moment without any of the ludicrous ‘vaccine nationalism’.

What absolute bollox.
It has been brewing from all quarters of the globe for over a year.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...l-pride-348072

There is nothing wrong with being proud of what you are doing.
But being stupid at the expense in peoples lives over it, is another matter.