O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[WanChaiMiller]

Daveyjohn - these are quotes from the 2 official leave websites.

Leave EU Website - "There are various trading models that could be explored, for example, a Norway-plus type model, or a looser Canada-style relationship."

Vote Leave Campaign Website - "We should negotiate a new UK-EU deal based on free trade and friendly cooperation."

Notice there is no mention of leaving with no deal.

[Exiletyke]

Daveyjohn - these are quotes from the 2 official leave websites.

Leave EU Website - "There are various trading models that could be explored, for example, a Norway-plus type model, or a looser Canada-style relationship."

Vote Leave Campaign Website - "We should negotiate a new UK-EU deal based on free trade and friendly cooperation."

Notice there is no mention of leaving with no deal.

Both those examples follow on after we have left

[ragingpup]

Both those examples follow on after we have left

I don't think that's true Exile. I think leaving with no deal means a complete end to all existing trade arrangements and exit on to WTO terms. So trading with the EU would be on WTO terms.

If we wanted a deal such as those, they would have to be negotiated via the WA and FTA so that we're not blowing everything up in the first place. I think that's true, although I think I hear the thumping of Kerr's jackboots coming down the hall to put me right!

[Exiletyke]

I don't think that's true Exile. I think leaving with no deal means a complete end to all existing trade arrangements and exit on to WTO terms. So trading with the EU would be on WTO terms.

If we wanted a deal such as those, they would have to be negotiated via the WA and FTA so that we're not blowing everything up in the first place. I think that's true, although I think I hear the thumping of Kerr's jackboots coming down the hall to put me right!

Sorry rp badly worded
Should have said
Both examples would need to be negotiated after we leave {if we ever do}

[great_fire]

The WA is a bad deal but better than we're going to get otherwise, and all because of the backstop which May herself asked for, isn't that the case of a Remainer deliberately sabotaging Brexit?

[Timbertop]

DaveyJohn. 100% agree with your post. Spot on. I can see why many fed up people,seeking something different, are rushing to join the revived Social Democrat Party. Read their "new declaration" on their official website. Got to agree with most of that statement.

[WanChaiMiller]

Both those examples follow on after we have left

I get that.

My point is this. No deal to trade under WTO rules was not put up as an option during the referendum campaign. During the campaign we were told we would walk into the easiest trade deal ever ( as highlighted above).

No deal only become the default option after the referendum was won when brexiteers realised a free trade deal wouldnt be so easy.

Id contend that voters were misled during the campaign.

[WanChaiMiller]

Just by coincidence I saw this article from the New York Times on exactly what I posted above.

Snippet from the article: "Back when Britain voted to leave, “no one was talking about no deal as an outcome,” said Asa Bennett, who covered the referendum for The Telegraph, the daily British newspaper. “The consensus was that of course we’d have a deal. It would be patently obvious. It didn’t even come on the radar.”

The notion that a no-deal exit was an option was powerfully normalized by Mrs. May herself, as negotiations with Brussels bogged down, and the complexities of removal became more obvious."

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/w...imes&smtyp=cur

[KerrAvon]

There is a deal, WanChai. It's just that Parliament won't approve it.

[KerrAvon]

What on Earth are you talking about?

The May deal creates a Customs Union hence the passage from the political declaration that I quoted above: ...build and improve on the single customs territory provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement.... The backstop is also based upon a customs union...

Setting aside Labour's desire to obtain a General Election, what they and the other parties you mention are looking for is a commitment to a Customs Union in the future relationship. You still need a withdrawal agreement - and there is only one on the table - and an agreement on the future relationship, which the EU won't negotiate until we have left.

I'm sorry that you don't get it, but it's clear that a number of MP's don't either so you shouldn't feel too bad.

The EU welcomed Corbyn's willingness to talk to May.

A series of binary votes cannot guarantee majority support for any approach. It can determine which is the most popular option, but if fewer than 50% of MP's support it, the legislation needed to put it into effect will struggle to pass. And it won't bind the government or any future Parliament, in any event.