The DERRY

[Returnofrros]

Can't have this agreement stuff going on,so I will say I think the stadium manager is doing a pretty good job given the circumstances,and that NM got a lot of stick he didn't deserve.

That should get things back to their natural order.....

Yeah it does I think he is a ****, a liability and not doing his job.

Respectfully posted though

[grantzer]

Yeah it does I think he is a ****, a liability and not doing his job.

Respectfully posted though

Phew....

[shaded]

Clearing up the hoses won't make a difference. The hoses are a symptom of the general malaise around dens. If the place is a mess it's because nobody cares enough to clean it up. If nobody has any pride behind the scenes,how easy is it for the players to pick up on that,and get the same feeling?

How easy is it for the fans to stop caring?

If you email the club and get no response,how many times does that happen before you stop trying?

I think we have some of the best fans in the country,and a club that does not deserve them.

good post however i disagree re people not caring to help clean it up,i know for a fact that in the recent past that a family member through his work offered volunteers to help spruce the old lady up ,however wasnt taken up,pretty sure the old h@s excuse got trotted out either that or no answer,nb have to find out which it was,but either way a problem that neednt have been,and yes i doubt he wid bother his erse to offer help again,so so much wrong with how our/the club is run

[grantzer]

good post however i disagree re people not caring to help clean it up,i know for a fact that in the recent past that a family member through his work offered volunteers to help spruce the old lady up ,however wasnt taken up,pretty sure the old h@s excuse got trotted out either that or no answer,nb have to find out which it was,but either way a problem that neednt have been,and yes i doubt he wid bother his erse to offer help again,so so much wrong with how our/the club is run

That was my point. You offer once,they refuse,offer twice,and now you are slightly offended when they refuse. Third refusal,you think why bother,and we are at the not caring stage.

[BCram]

good post however i disagree re people not caring to help clean it up,i know for a fact that in the recent past that a family member through his work offered volunteers to help spruce the old lady up ,however wasnt taken up,pretty sure the old h@s excuse got trotted out either that or no answer,nb have to find out which it was,but either way a problem that neednt have been,and yes i doubt he wid bother his erse to offer help again,so so much wrong with how our/the club is run

Hi Shaded, I'm interested in the H&S excuse for not accepting volunteers. As far as I can see there is almost a national campaign being run to get people with talents to volunteer to help all sorts of organisations in any way they can. I've been involved with some events that needed to be organised and the first rule is to prepare a risk assessment, and if you are using other businesses to help deliver the event you need to make sure that you have copies of their risk assessment. Even the stadium manager at a wee ground will have risk assessments for everything that has to be done at the ground he manages, so it would seem to me that our stadium manager will have all the paperwork in place for all the jobs that need to be carried out at Dens. Giving the volunteers these safe way of working assessments will be a straightforward task and would ensure that the club had carried out its responsibility to whoever was carrying out the tasks. Obviously operating machinery might be beyond the abilities of a volunteer but these pieces of equipment will have their own risk assessments and be subject to additional training before anyone should attempt to operate them.

there is one problem with using volunteers. It can happen when the task to be carried out might be something that one of the club's commercial sponsors might undertake as part of their normal business. I would hope that a Dee supporting business might get a fair opportunity to quote for any work that is going to be undertaken.

[shaded]

i will find out why the offer wasnt taken up tonight bcram.i do know however that roxburgh house were the benefactors of hours of volunteer work that dfc passed up on.basically painting and sprucing up in general

[Deeranged]

Hi Shaded, I'm interested in the H&S excuse for not accepting volunteers. As far as I can see there is almost a national campaign being run to get people with talents to volunteer to help all sorts of organisations in any way they can. I've been involved with some events that needed to be organised and the first rule is to prepare a risk assessment, and if you are using other businesses to help deliver the event you need to make sure that you have copies of their risk assessment. Even the stadium manager at a wee ground will have risk assessments for everything that has to be done at the ground he manages, so it would seem to me that our stadium manager will have all the paperwork in place for all the jobs that need to be carried out at Dens. Giving the volunteers these safe way of working assessments will be a straightforward task and would ensure that the club had carried out its responsibility to whoever was carrying out the tasks. Obviously operating machinery might be beyond the abilities of a volunteer but these pieces of equipment will have their own risk assessments and be subject to additional training before anyone should attempt to operate them.

there is one problem with using volunteers. It can happen when the task to be carried out might be something that one of the club's commercial sponsors might undertake as part of their normal business. I would hope that a Dee supporting business might get a fair opportunity to quote for any work that is going to be undertaken.

I keep reading that H&S is the reason the club refuse to allow volunteers to help out with tasks around the stadium. However, as you say, that's easily bypassed by having risk assessments in place and properly briefing volunteers on what's required. I personally have never heard H&S used as a reason by anyone in a position of responsibility at the club but then nobody's going to believe that now are they?

Scenario for you. Club asks for volunteers to, I don't know, tidy away some feral hoses for example. People turn up, they get a full briefing during which all the relevant risk assessments are read out and they sign off as having understood all requirements - good to go.

One of the volunteers thinks it would be clever rather than to carry one of the hoses from its existing location to a brand new shed, supplied by donation from B&Q, as required by the risk assessment, using proper lifting and transportation techniques of course, to throw a hose down a flight of derelict stairs to save time and effort. Unbeknown to the volunteer A.N. Other volunteer had carried their hose down to the shed and was re-ascending the derelict stairwell, in a manner of course fully in compliance with all risk assessments.

As circumstance would have it the throw hose lands atop the unfortunate stair climber knocking them from their balanced position and causing them to fall down several of the stairs, in the process fracturing their leg in multiple locations and giving them a right minter into the bargain. The poor victim has to attend A&E where an orthopaedic surgeon announces that surgery is required which will involve a one week hospital stay followed by at least six weeks, probably longer, rehabilitation and physio during which time work is out of the question.

Now imagine the accident victim suddenly realising they're about to lose their job and thinking 'ach that's OK the club will be insured and will look after me, after all I was doing them a favour'. Now think about it, if the club approaches their insurance company will the company pay out any claim by the accident victim? A non employee, non contractor carrying out work on behalf of the insured party by informal arrangement. If the insurance company did pay out what would it do to the next five or six years' premium? Would the club be obliged to pay the victim some kind of compensation without approaching the insurance company? Might take the accident victim two years to find a new job, might incur the club £100,000 in lost wage costs. Or maybe the accident victim would need to pursue compensation from the individual that lobbed he hose? Turns out that person is a poor pensioner ( ) with no resources available to compensate the accident victim.

If it was your business would you take the risk with people you don't know?

[hmac]

I keep reading that H&S is the reason the club refuse to allow volunteers to help out with tasks around the stadium. However, as you say, that's easily bypassed by having risk assessments in place and properly briefing volunteers on what's required. I personally have never heard H&S used as a reason by anyone in a position of responsibility at the club but then nobody's going to believe that now are they?

Scenario for you. Club asks for volunteers to, I don't know, tidy away some feral hoses for example. People turn up, they get a full briefing during which all the relevant risk assessments are read out and they sign off as having understood all requirements - good to go.

One of the volunteers thinks it would be clever rather than to carry one of the hoses from its existing location to a brand new shed, supplied by donation from B&Q, as required by the risk assessment, using proper lifting and transportation techniques of course, to throw a hose down a flight of derelict stairs to save time and effort. Unbeknown to the volunteer A.N. Other volunteer had carried their hose down to the shed and was re-ascending the derelict stairwell, in a manner of course fully in compliance with all risk assessments.

As circumstance would have it the throw hose lands atop the unfortunate stair climber knocking them from their balanced position and causing them to fall down several of the stairs, in the process fracturing their leg in multiple locations and giving them a right minter into the bargain. The poor victim has to attend A&E where an orthopaedic surgeon announces that surgery is required which will involve a one week hospital stay followed by at least six weeks, probably longer, rehabilitation and physio during which time work is out of the question.

Now imagine the accident victim suddenly realising they're about to lose their job and thinking 'ach that's OK the club will be insured and will look after me, after all I was doing them a favour'. Now think about it, if the club approaches their insurance company will the company pay out any claim by the accident victim? A non employee, non contractor carrying out work on behalf of the insured party by informal arrangement. If the insurance company did pay out what would it do to the next five or six years' premium? Would the club be obliged to pay the victim some kind of compensation without approaching the insurance company? Might take the accident victim two years to find a new job, might incur the club £100,000 in lost wage costs. Or maybe the accident victim would need to pursue compensation from the individual that lobbed he hose? Turns out that person is a poor pensioner ( ) with no resources available to compensate the accident victim.

If it was your business would you take the risk with people you don't know?

Or maybe they’d just tidy the place up. It’s a disgrace.

Your story goes out the window when they ask volunteers to clear ice and snow...

[Deeranged]

Or maybe they’d just tidy the place up. It’s a disgrace.

Your story goes out the window when they ask volunteers to clear ice and snow...

They should definitely tidy it up, total disgrace.

I honestly can't remember the last time fans were asked to help clear ice and snow.

[Returnofrros]

Or maybe they’d just tidy the place up. It’s a disgrace.

Your story goes out the window when they ask volunteers to clear ice and snow...

Exactly.....and some say dfcss reps didnae take the role seriously. Not me😎

I think most respected has a collection of reps in his hipper.

Most respected the jumped up Janny who refuses to Janny.