⚽ Match Thread vs. Shrewbury Town FC 01.12.23 [FAC R2]

[BigFatPie]

Glad I made a late ish decision not to go last night. I think our defensive abilities were seriously overestimated after last season’s good showing, that was maybe because the defence were well protected from pressure by our midfield.

I still rate Baldwin, Rawlinson and Brindley just aren’t good enough unfortunately.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

I still rate Baldwin, Rawlinson and Brindley just aren’t good enough unfortunately.

I’m not so sure buddy. Baldwin has potential, but how long does he have to do stupid things before the potential is reality?

For the first goal, why does he let the ball pass him? Why does he clearly try to take his man on?

What on earth was he trying to do for the third goal???? I honestly don’t know.

For me he’s not good enough right now be wise his head isn’t in the right place, he needs either a kick up the backside or an arm round the shoulder, I don’t know him so wouldn’t know which will work, but he needs to understand he’s not a premier league player and to stop playing like he is.

Of the defenders, he’s the biggest disappointment, because there is potential talent there. With the others, I can’t see it.

[drillerpie]

I’m not so sure buddy. Baldwin has potential, but how long does he have to do stupid things before the potential is reality?

For the first goal, why does he let the ball pass him? Why does he clearly try to take his man on?

What on earth was he trying to do for the third goal???? I honestly don’t know.

For me he’s not good enough right now be wise his head isn’t in the right place, he needs either a kick up the backside or an arm round the shoulder, I don’t know him so wouldn’t know which will work, but he needs to understand he’s not a premier league player and to stop playing like he is.

Of the defenders, he’s the biggest disappointment, because there is potential talent there. With the others, I can’t see it.

Completely agree with this.

I have taken some pelters this season for giving Baldwin low marks on the ratings threads even if we win and he plays well for 99% of the game, but still creates a couple of chances for the opposition that they don't take.

I wrote about a month ago that he gives up one or two good chances per game, pretty much every game, and I think he has only let me down in one game in that month.

I think about a week ago I wrote that his mistakes were less noticeable last year because in the NL teams didn't usually punish us and if they did, we normally won handsomely anyway.

This year is more noticeable because they often do punish us and we don't always win regardless. I also said that if we get promoted to League 1 and Baldwin hasn't developed (ie cutting out the brain farts), he will get us relegated straight back down again.

Last night did nothing to change my mind, bearing in mind that wasn't a particularly potent L1 team. In fact the only good thing about last night is that is should keep the gaslighters who say it's 'due to our playing style' quiet for a bit.

Nothing against the lad - he's good to watch and has obviously got talent, but he's taking a big risk if he thinks his talent is enough to make up for giving up one or two good chances pretty much every single game - because it isn't.

'Being brave' on the ball is great, but to paraphrase one of the Greek philosophers (maybe Aristotle), bravery when you don't give a **** about what happens is not bravery, it's recklessness. I think there is also a bit of complacency and a bit of showing off in there as well.

Hopefully this will be a turning point for the player (and his defensive colleagues, because it's not only him) and for the manager too.

[jackal2]

Last night did nothing to change my mind, bearing in mind that wasn't a particularly potent L1 team. In fact the only good thing about last night is that is should keep the gaslighters who say it's 'due to our playing style' quiet for a bit.

I wouldn't want to change our playing style overall, because it's the most entertaining football I've seen in over 30 years watching Notts County.

That said, it would be unfair to suggest that the ridiculous mistakes leading to goals this season, and the other ridiculous mistakes that didn't lead to goals, were just down to the limitations of Aden Baldwin. The second goal last night was a 'brain fart' by Rawlinson, Cameron's had his fair share of cock-ups in other games, and various other players have made slip ups too.

The fundamental problem seems to be that the number of risks we're asking the team (and defensive players especially) to take in the defensive third/half of the pitch is too great, relative to the general abilty of players at this level.

I'm not for one minute suggesting we just boot the ball up the field - God forbid, but we need to remove some of the over-elaboration in the number of passes it takes to move the ball into the opponent's half, because every additional unnecessary "action" in our own half creates a potential mistake between one player and another.

Essentially, we need to ensure we're playing a higher percentage of our football in the opponent's half, and move the ball into the opponent's half more quickly. I think that's eminently possible to do without compromising (too greatly) the attractive football we want to play, which highlights the skills of players like Crowley, Jones etc.

I hate to mention it, but Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest teams were known for their attractive, flowing football, and were able to do it without taking excessive risks in bad areas of the pitch. Cloughie demanded clean sheets. We don't need to fundamentally change our approach, just tweak it so we're playing to the strengths of our players rather than exposing their weaknesses.

[the_anticlough]

I wouldn't want to change our playing style overall, because it's the most entertaining football I've seen in over 30 years watching Notts County.

That said, it would be unfair to suggest that the ridiculous mistakes leading to goals this season, and the other ridiculous mistakes that didn't lead to goals, were just down to the limitations of Aden Baldwin. The second goal last night was a 'brain fart' by Rawlinson, Cameron's had his fair share of cock-ups in other games, and various other players have made slip ups too.

The fundamental problem seems to be that the number of risks we're asking the team (and defensive players especially) to take in the defensive third/half of the pitch is too great, relative to the general abilty of players at this level.

I'm not for one minute suggesting we just boot the ball up the field - God forbid, but we need to remove some of the over-elaboration in the number of passes it takes to move the ball into the opponent's half, because every additional unnecessary "action" in our own half creates a potential mistake between one player and another.

Essentially, we need to ensure we're playing a higher percentage of our football in the opponent's half, and move the ball into the opponent's half more quickly. I think that's eminently possible to do without compromising (too greatly) the attractive football we want to play, which highlights the skills of players like Crowley, Jones etc.

I hate to mention it, but Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest teams were known for their attractive, flowing football, and were able to do it without taking excessive risks in bad areas of the pitch. Cloughie demanded clean sheets. We don't need to fundamentally change our approach, just tweak it so we're playing to the strengths of our players rather than exposing their weaknesses.

Very fair post, Jackal.
As for the last paragraph, you hate to mention it and I hate to agree with you

[legs77]

Yeah good points Jackal.

It’s worth pointing out it was easier to keep clean sheets/waste time in Clough era as the back pass rule wasn’t in play.

I agree we could if we wanted tighten up by playing the basics and at times it does need to be done imo and although it is the players responsibility to make the pass clear the ball etc if they are being coached/told to take risks then they are going to carry on doing that otherwise they are likely to be dropped for not following team instructions.

[the_anticlough]

Last night did nothing to change my mind, bearing in mind that wasn't a particularly potent L1 team. In fact the only good thing about last night is that is should keep the gaslighters who say it's 'due to our playing style' quiet for a bit.

Posters that make this point are just stating certain facts, not gaslighting (but it may be gaslighting to say they're gaslighting )

We have only 3 defenders.

They, along with the keeper, are charged with playing the ball out (usually between the 3 of them) and are expected to keep the ball in play as much as possible.

They see more of the ball than any other outfield players.

Ideally we want to 'play through the press' to create overloads further up the pitch.

If we imagine the opposite of all this, a back 4, allowed to play it long, or out of play whenever in doubt, and not the main source of the team's build up....naturally, we'd see far fewer mistakes by defenders. Most of ours seem to be connected to executing those special tasks rather than
traditional defensive actions.

Nobody likes mistakes. Ultimately, careers rise and fall partly on the ability to not make mistakes.

We make a lot of them. In part that's down to the players' characteristics, and partly it's through the way we set up and try to play.

[Woodypie]

It seemed to me that we weren't outclassed by a good team from a league above. Catastrophic defending, again, cost us dearly. I think Luke has and will continue to coach these defenders to the best of his ability. He said, I think, something like he doesn't know what more to with them. Can't make a silk purse from sow's ear. We should recruit three oven ready CBs that can play Luke's way, not promising youngsters, in January. If we don't, we are good enough to avoid relegation probably but nowhere near a promotion team.

[jackal2]

It seemed to me that we weren't outclassed by a good team from a league above. Catastrophic defending, again, cost us dearly.

I genuinely think we should have won that game 2-0, and deserved to based on the overall balance of play. Take out the defensive errors and we were a far better football team than Shrewsbury.

[countygump]

I genuinely think we should have won that game 2-0, and deserved to based on the overall balance of play. Take out the defensive errors and we were a far better football team than Shrewsbury.

This^^^

I didn't think Shrews were a particularly good team at all, and on another night with no kamikaze defending we would have won comfortably. Bear in mind though that Shrews have an extensive injury list, 11 players it seems.