THE Ardley In/Out Thread [Multiple threads merged]

[Elite_Pie]

Not sacking managers on a regular basis is an ideal, but it's like asking people if they want world peace. If it is the obvious solution, why aren't all clubs sticking with their manager?

Which managers of the last 20 years should we have stuck with? Any of them or we being selective?

I've said similar before. To all those who preach the "we need to stick with a manager and allow him to build his own team" doctrine, do you think we should have stuck with Jamie Fullarton and allowed him to build his own team?

If not, why not?

[upthemaggies]

I've said similar before. To all those who preach the "we need to stick with a manager and allow him to build his own team" doctrine, do you think we should have stuck with Jamie Fullarton and allowed him to build his own team?

If not, why not?

Steel-manning "stick with Ardely", with the best logical argument I can think of, would be the premise that we don't want to have to start all over again, sacking him will set us back a season. But this assumes two things, 1. that we WILL get promoted under Ardley and 2. he WILL be good enough to handle the job of managing Notts County in League Two. Otherwise, we're going to be set back anyway and will have to start all over again in a position in which we're either more demoralized (having not gone up) or we'll be struggling to stay up and the next manager's first job will be to fight fires rather than build.

[countygump]

I've said similar before. To all those who preach the "we need to stick with a manager and allow him to build his own team" doctrine, do you think we should have stuck with Jamie Fullarton and allowed him to build his own team?

If not, why not?

30 managers in 30 years and only a dozen or so have left us in a better position than they found us in, when sacked.

How many actually deserved more time? Bearing in mind you have to leave out those who resigned or chose not to sign a new contact.

Conclusion: we hire too many chit managers.


PS Was Charlie McParly only in charge for 2 years? Seemed a Hell of a lot longer.


https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport...ers-30-2233611

[laddo]

This has been answered on more than one occasion previously but happy to explain again.

The answer is not and below is why not.

The desire to "stick with a manager " aka give a manager time doesn't apply to all appointments. For example a completely underwhelming internal appointment like Kiwomya , doesn't apply. A complete left field, unheard and frankly insult to the fans appointment like Fullarton doesn't apply. Put these in the category of "Never should have been appointed in the first place".

Think of it more as a general overall philosophy rather than a strict rule for every appointment.


Now look at some of the other more
expected managerial appointments over the past two decades. Opinions will naturally vary on who but many of those managers weren't given long enough for the supporters or chairman to actually know whether they were good average or bad appointments in the first place. As soon as we hit a bump in the road, went through a bad patch or the chairman read too much on the internet and they were sacked and replaced. Obviously with the club's thanks for the work they had done and best wishes for the future etc etc.

They weren't given a full season or more , they weren't given transfer windows to build their own squad.

Instead we have had two dozen managers all adopting someone else's squad, trying to change the players approach to games etc. All whilst we sacked managerial teams and replaced with new managerial teams who wanted their own players, this is really costly. Then there is the reputational damage to the club as a hire em fire em club, likely resulting in a declining quality of applicants. It's a vicious cycle which in Notts case hasn't worked. The evidence is overwhelming sadly. We've tried that it's failed countless times, how many times have we tried the alternative? Rarely.


In summary we don't have to stick with every manager , giving every manager two full seasons, but every now and then would be nice.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I had reservations when Ardley was appointed, and I still do, but I also see positives in his management style as well. I reckon it's fair to say he's a slow-burner in terms of impact, rather than a revolutionary like Warnock, Allardyce and Allen were.

I think the owners have certainly been right to put a stopper in the revolving door in the manager's office and give patience and time to the manager they inherited, and I would imagine they were reasonably satisfied overall with last season, given the circumstances in which it started, but obviously disappointed to get so close to promotion and miss out in the play-off final.

Ardley's aim this season must be to succeed where we fell just short last time, ideally by winning the league, but certainly by finishing in the top 3 again and hopefully going one better than last year. I would think that by mid-season, the owners would want us to be top of the league or within spitting distance of it. If we're any lower than that, say outside the play-off positions, then their patience might start to be tested.

I think that Neal Ardley will see out his contract and the owners will review at the end of the season.

Some on here have said do we give him this season? We already appear to have done the way I see it because we have allowed him to strengthen the squad and also have appointed an assistant manager.

I can’t see these owners being like Hardy or Trew letting managers bring players in then sacking them when the waters get stormy and the cost and upheaval associated with it.

Also because of this Covid 19 and whatever further disruption comes along during the season, and with the hits to all football clubs finances sacking a manager causes more disruption.

Who’s to say it would work anyway? Sacking Nolan didn’t save us. When Curle was sacked the players were not happy and it didn’t help us. The problem Notts have had in the past is sacking managers at will but then never seemingly having a better one that replaces them. Alas the slide down the leagues continued.

For me I just think it would have to be something along the lines of a collapse like the Nolan 18/19 season after the playoff season that would make the owners part company with Neal Ardley this season.

One thing is certain at some point Neal Ardley will leave the club like every other manager . Whenever that is the most important thing is who we replace him with..

[laddo]

To start the season as championship favourites and then struggle for three-quarters of the season, losing to many also-rans and performing like a pub team in a play-off game looks like a shambles to me. If it wasn't such a shambles there would not be as much barracking and calling for Ardley's head then and now from the vox populi would there? He wasn't popular choice to begin with, fans didn't want him and we now know why.

So if last season was a shambles in your opinion. I'd love to hear what word or words would you use to describe the season before last?

You are right nobody was asking for him on NCM.I didn't want him, he was Alan Hardy's choice to get us out of the mess be had got us in.

[LaxtonLad]

So if last season was a shambles in your opinion. I'd love to hear what word or words would you use to describe the season before last?

If not a catastrophe, that was a shambles too, finished off by Ardley. There you are laddo.

[laddo]

A lot of us, at the time Ardley was appointed didn't want him as we thought he wasn't the ideal candidate for a 'relegation scrap'. No other reason. We didn't think a recently sacked man who had spent 10 years or so as a player for Wimbledon and 6 ish as manager and was sacked because they were in a relegation scrap themselves, would be the ideal 'fit' for us. Of course, you hope for the best and that somehow the new man will scratch enough points together to get us safe, but truth is, apart from a few fleeting moments, we never really looked like avoiding relegation.

There you go, and handpicked for the relegation scrap by the former chairman. Yet he financially backed him , as he did Nolan to a greater extent so not his fault.

Let's forget that this great backing of managers and clear overspending cost us our league status for the first time in our history, and put us in a dire financial predicament whilst we headed to non league football. Forget that bit.

Truth be told bar a fleeting period under Kewell we never looked like staying up that season.

[i961pie]

There you go, and handpicked for the relegation scrap by the former chairman. Yet he financially backed him , as he did Nolan to a greater extent so not his fault.

Let's forget that this great backing of managers and clear overspending cost us our league status for the first time in our history, and put us in a dire financial predicament whilst we headed to non league football. Forget that bit.

Truth be told bar a fleeting period under Kewell we never looked like staying up that season.

Let's see where we are after 10 games, if we start like Forest and Derby have, and play like we did against Harrogate and York then a change is a must imo. McParland couldn't get the best out of an excellent squad back in 2010 but Cotterill managed it and we won the league.

[Elite_Pie]

Let's forget that this great backing of managers and clear overspending cost us our league status for the first time in our history, and put us in a dire financial predicament.

Hardy's overspending certainly put us in a dire financial predicament, but it didn't cost us our league status.

That was mainly down to the management and players.