O/T:- The NHS strike - for or against?

[Elite_Pie]

You can probably guess my thoughts, but what are yours?

[upthemaggies]

You can probably guess my thoughts, but what are yours?

There's plenty of people on lower pay or lower incomes than NHS workers, rail staff, teachers etc. If these strikes end up forcing inflation up even further, the vulnerable will suffer more. Everybody wants or needs more money, the people who are shouting the loudest in their demands will no doubt mostly be the same people who were cheering on the lockdowns and furlough etc. that are largely responsible for the mess.

[Davy500]

There's plenty of people on lower pay or lower incomes than NHS workers, rail staff, teachers etc. If these strikes end up forcing inflation up even further, the vulnerable will suffer more. Everybody wants or needs more money, the people who are shouting the loudest in their demands will no doubt mostly be the same people who were cheering on the lockdowns and furlough etc. that are largely responsible for the mess.

As for teachers , they are mostly useless, what do they really teach kids in schools and universities is by and large a load of nonsense, just another money maker

[Elite_Pie]

There's plenty of people on lower pay or lower incomes than NHS workers, rail staff, teachers etc. If these strikes end up forcing inflation up even further, the vulnerable will suffer more. Everybody wants or needs more money, the people who are shouting the loudest in their demands will no doubt mostly be the same people who were cheering on the lockdowns and furlough etc. that are largely responsible for the mess.

Just the response I expected, but not from you UTM! My daughter was on the picket line as a nurse on Tuesday (she even made the BBC local news!), but their strike and and protest was about safe staffing rather than pay. This goes way deeper than just money, and I will be happy to provide real life examples of the strain they are under.

[Bohinen]

Just the response I expected, but not from you UTM! My daughter was on the picket line as a nurse on Tuesday (she even made the BBC local news!), but their strike and and protest was about safe staffing rather than pay. This goes way deeper than just money, and I will be happy to provide real life examples of the strain they are under.

Expect everyone to be right wing on here, Elite. My wife is a nurse, my daughter is a nurse. They have had a real terms 7% pay cut. Of course I support them. People need to get off their knees and stand up to this governement, the worst in living memory.

[Elite_Pie]

Expect everyone to be right wing on here, Elite. My wife is a nurse, my daughter is a nurse. They have had a real terms 7% pay cut. Of course I support them. People need to get off their knees and stand up to this governement, the worst in living memory.

Thanks for bumping this Bohinen, I didn't provide any real real life examples of the strain they are under. So here we go:

My youngest daughter paid £9,000 per year to qualify as a nurse on a 3 year uni course. Then Covid happened, so she had to do online facetime lectures. She didn't feel she was learning a lot, so she signed up for NHS Professionals as an HCA. She worked shifts on Covid wards and caught the virus. She was living with us at the time, and me and my wife also tested positive. She also did unpaid ward placements (part of her uni course), where she really felt she learned. One of them was on an Oncology ward which was the hardest of all, but when she qualified that's where she applied to work. She got the job, but after 3 months on the ward she found herself in charge because the two senior nurses had phoned in sick. She (as a complete novice) was in charge of an understaffed ward with patients placed on end of life care. Her official hours were 12.5, but she ended up working a 14 hour night shift until they found other staff. Even after that she couldn't sleep when she finally got home because she was worrying if she'd missed something. It came close to ending her nursing career, but my wife (an ex-nurse) talked her around. She joined the strike, but her protest was far more about understaffing than pay.

This isn't an isolated case, it's becoming increasingly more common. That's why I'm passionate about this, and it's why I hate it becoming derailed by talk of nurses needing food banks. My daughter doesn't need a food bank, all she wants is to be able to do her job properly.

[magpie_mania]

Thanks for bumping this Bohinen, I didn't provide any real real life examples of the strain they are under. So here we go:

My youngest daughter paid £9,000 per year to qualify as a nurse on a 3 year uni course. Then Covid happened, so she had to do online facetime lectures. She didn't feel she was learning a lot, so she signed up for NHS Professionals as an HCA. She worked shifts on Covid wards and caught the virus. She was living with us at the time, and me and my wife also tested positive. She also did unpaid ward placements (part of her uni course), where she really felt she learned. One of them was on an Oncology ward which was the hardest of all, but when she qualified that's where she applied to work. She got the job, but after 3 months on the ward she found herself in charge because the two senior nurses had phoned in sick. She (as a complete novice) was in charge of an understaffed ward with patients placed on end of life care. Her official hours were 12.5, but she ended up working a 14 hour night shift until they found other staff. Even after that she couldn't sleep when she finally got home because she was worrying if she'd missed something. It came close to ending her nursing career, but my wife (an ex-nurse) talked her around. She joined the strike, but her protest was far more about understaffing than pay.

This isn't an isolated case, it's becoming increasingly more common. That's why I'm passionate about this, and it's why I hate it becoming derailed by talk of nurses needing food banks. My daughter doesn't need a food bank, all she wants is to be able to do her job properly.

Elite, I agree that it is being derailed, but the Union leaders need to do that, lead. If they were to really stand up and say that it's about far more than pay it would really help. I can only say it as I see it, but I do hear by far the most talk about it being about pay. Similarly about food banks - those from inside who are saying that are not helping at all. Then add in those saying that they could earn more in a supermarket ..... how do they feel many supermarket workers on far less think about that?

I am absolutely in favour of paying nurses fairly, and them being able to do their jobs properly.

[applepie2]

Thanks for bumping this Bohinen, I didn't provide any real real life examples of the strain they are under. So here we go:

My youngest daughter paid £9,000 per year to qualify as a nurse on a 3 year uni course. Then Covid happened, so she had to do online facetime lectures. She didn't feel she was learning a lot, so she signed up for NHS Professionals as an HCA. She worked shifts on Covid wards and caught the virus. She was living with us at the time, and me and my wife also tested positive. She also did unpaid ward placements (part of her uni course), where she really felt she learned. One of them was on an Oncology ward which was the hardest of all, but when she qualified that's where she applied to work. She got the job, but after 3 months on the ward she found herself in charge because the two senior nurses had phoned in sick. She (as a complete novice) was in charge of an understaffed ward with patients placed on end of life care. Her official hours were 12.5, but she ended up working a 14 hour night shift until they found other staff. Even after that she couldn't sleep when she finally got home because she was worrying if she'd missed something. It came close to ending her nursing career, but my wife (an ex-nurse) talked her around. She joined the strike, but her protest was far more about understaffing than pay.

This isn't an isolated case, it's becoming increasingly more common. That's why I'm passionate about this, and it's why I hate it becoming derailed by talk of nurses needing food banks. My daughter doesn't need a food bank, all she wants is to be able to do her job properly.

My wife worked for the NHS until shortly before Covid. I just read out your post, and she completely agreed with you. The thing about pay is that (a) poor pay makes it harder to recruit staff and (b) the Trusts are forced to employ and pay expensive Agency staff. So pay is part of the mix, but striking nurses are fighting for the Health Service. My fear is that the NHS is close to collapse, and then this useless Government will have the excuse to bring in a US style system making obscene profits for US companies. The big winners will be Insurers, and the losers will be anyone not employed by big business, because many of us poor workers and pensioners will not get our insurance premiums paid by our employers. And it will be insurance companies who will decide on what care and treatment they allow us to have.

[Elite_Pie]

There's plenty of people on lower pay or lower incomes than NHS workers, rail staff, teachers etc.

That's true, but this topic is specifically about the NHS. Please keep it to that, and forget the"etc", or start a separate topic. None of their cases should be casually attached to the NHS case.

If these strikes end up forcing inflation up even further, the vulnerable will suffer more.

And if the chronic mismanagement of the NHS isn't addressed, the vulnerable will suffer even more, with or without strike action.

Everybody wants or needs more money, the people who are shouting the loudest in their demands will no doubt mostly be the same people who were cheering on the lockdowns and furlough etc. that are largely responsible for the mess.

If you honestly believe that's where the responsibility lies for this mess, you have gone down in my estimation big time.

[slack_pie]

There's plenty of people on lower pay or lower incomes than NHS workers, rail staff, teachers etc. If these strikes end up forcing inflation up even further, the vulnerable will suffer more. Everybody wants or needs more money, the people who are shouting the loudest in their demands will no doubt mostly be the same people who were cheering on the lockdowns and furlough etc. that are largely responsible for the mess.

This perfectly sums up my view. Everyone is less well off than a year ago thanks to the bonkers response to COVID. It's impossible for everyone's wages to keep up with inflation without causing more inflation. The average wage for a nurse is £35k or so. Is that really too low to live on?