⚽ Match Thread vs. Shrewbury Town FC 01.12.23 [FAC R2]

[SmiffyPie]

Just got back from a very peaceful long weekend on the Welsh coast. Good local pub but no WiFi...thank F.... Just watched the goals on Youtube. OK 1st was a slip, anyone can slip, but the other two for heavens sake!!

[SmiffyPie]

All those saying the game wasn't taken seriously have to understand that LW cannot factor in mistakes made by clowns. You could question why LW hasn't got these clowns together and trained the **** out of them until they do what they are required to do. And if, like a poster has suggested, they are afraid to put the ball into row Z because they might get dropped for not following LW's (only) game plan, then LW needs a close look in the mirror.

[durhampie]

All those saying the game wasn't taken seriously have to understand that LW cannot factor in mistakes made by clowns. You could question why LW hasn't got these clowns together and trained the **** out of them until they do what they are required to do. And if, like a poster has suggested, they are afraid to put the ball into row Z because they might get dropped for not following LW's (only) game plan, then LW needs a close look in the mirror.

Just out of curiosity, when do we ever see our so called defenders kick the ball into row Z ??? They would sooner pi** about and give away a goal..

[SmiffyPie]

Just out of curiosity, when do we ever see our so called defenders kick the ball into row Z ??? They would sooner pi** about and give away a goal..

When they piss about they are very good at it! I'm all for playing out when the option is on but when we are under pressure facing our goal (or one of ours has taken a dive under pressure) then LW should be saying "Row Z please". For some reason they don't, why?

This;
"To me it seems we are making continuous mistakes from misunderstandings, overconfidence, laspes in concentration and bad decision making in situations where there isn't even much reward to balance the risk. If we were conceding goals from CBs surging out of defence and beating a couple of men before turning over possession then of course I would agree with you, but that is not what is happening."

[drillerpie]

Posters that make this point are just stating certain facts, not gaslighting (but it may be gaslighting to say they're gaslighting )

We have only 3 defenders.

They, along with the keeper, are charged with playing the ball out (usually between the 3 of them) and are expected to keep the ball in play as much as possible.

They see more of the ball than any other outfield players.

Ideally we want to 'play through the press' to create overloads further up the pitch.

If we imagine the opposite of all this, a back 4, allowed to play it long, or out of play whenever in doubt, and not the main source of the team's build up....naturally, we'd see far fewer mistakes by defenders. Most of ours seem to be connected to executing those special tasks rather than
traditional defensive actions.

Nobody likes mistakes. Ultimately, careers rise and fall partly on the ability to not make mistakes.

We make a lot of them. In part that's down to the players' characteristics, and partly it's through the way we set up and try to play.

I don't see many facts at all. Most of what you write is your opinion.

We know they are under instructions to bring the ball out when possible - so that is a fact.

But we also know they have licence to go long (goalkeeper too) if needs be - that is another fact.

We know they have licence to take risks - LW has said in the past he won't punish players for trying something that doesn't come off - but we don't know that they are under orders to take risks all the time come what may.

Actually LW prizes control above pretty much all else, so I would be surprised if they were. Therefore, also considering what he said in his interview last night, i think its fair to assume he wants them to use some discretion about when and where to take risks.

Our defenders are ably assisted in playing out by at least one midfielder dropping deep and one wing back, and theybare often not pressed at all or only pressed by one or maybe two players, so it's not just the three of them against the world trying to do an impossible task. Just as they are very rarely left alone to defend the width of the pitch between the three of them, as you have previously said (I have kept an eye out for that happening since you mentioned it a few weeks ago and it has only happened a couple of times in about 10 games)

You wrote that most of our mistakes come from being required to do this special task of playing out, but unless there are stats to back it up that is not a fact either, it's your opinion.

To me it seems we are making continuous mistakes from misunderstandings, overconfidence, laspes in concentration and bad decision making in situations where there isn't even much reward to balance the risk. If we were conceding goals from CBs surging out of defence and beating a couple of men before turning over possession then of course I would agree with you, but that is not what is happening.

I'm not even sure there is any point to this discussion as it feels like we are watching completely different games of football. I basically don't recognise your description of what happens in Notts County matches.

[the_anticlough]

I don't see many facts at all. Most of what you write is your opinion.

Drillerpie back to his disingenuous best...Here are the facts I set out which you want to call opinions

1) We have only 3 defenders.

2) They, along with the keeper, are charged with playing the ball out (usually between the 3 of them) and are expected to keep the ball in play as much as possible.

3)They see more of the ball than any other outfield players.

4) Ideally we want to 'play through the press' to create overloads further up the pitch.

But you just want to win an argument, don't you? As always. Mr. Anally Retentive. OK then, that we play a back 3 is just my opinion. You win.

Actually LW prizes control above pretty much all else, so I would be surprised if they were. Therefore, also considering what he said in his interview last night, i think its fair to assume he wants them to use some discretion about when and where to take risks.

He's also said recently that he has to find that balance between attack and defence so as not to expose the back three. And that sometimes he doesn't. I like the attacking, positive approach. But it acknowledges that he does ask a lot of his defenders.

defenders are ably assisted in playing out by at least one midfielder dropping deep and one wing back, and theybare often not pressed at all or only pressed by one or maybe two players, so it's not just the three of them against the world trying to do an impossible task. Just as they are very rarely left alone to defend the width of the pitch between the three of them, as you have previously said (I have kept an eye out for that happening since you mentioned it a few weeks ago and it has only happened a couple of times in about 10 games)

It happens far more frequently than that.

You wrote that most of our mistakes come from being required to do this special task of playing out, but unless there are stats to back it up that is not a fact either, it's your opinion.

The film's there for all to see.

Take the 3 goals against Shrewsbury. They weren't missed tackles, lost aerial challenges or marking assignments.
No, they were all attempts to play out 1) Baldwin tried to beat his man 2) Randall and Rawlinson were attempting passes. 3) Both Brindley and Baldwin were trying to control the ball in order to use it.
Correct me if my maths is wrong but I make that 3 out of 3
Many other times, it has been the keeper's passes.

Most fans will recognise this. But you want to win, don't you? So scuttle off to your desk or whatever, say "I'll get him this time'' like a latterday Dick Dastardly, and concoct another way to say black is white.

I'm not even sure there is any point to this discussion as it feels like we are watching completely different games of football. I basically don't recognise your description of what happens in Notts County matches.

I'm fine with that. There are many excellent posters here I would look for opinion and analysis before you.
I can't recall you writing a single interesting or insightful thing about the team.

[durhampie]

Drillerpie back to his disingenuous best...Here are the facts I set out which you want to call opinions

1) We have only 3 defenders.

2) They, along with the keeper, are charged with playing the ball out (usually between the 3 of them) and are expected to keep the ball in play as much as possible.

3)They see more of the ball than any other outfield players.

4) Ideally we want to 'play through the press' to create overloads further up the pitch.

But you just want to win an argument, don't you? As always. Mr. Anally Retentive. OK then, that we play a back 3 is just my opinion. You win.



He's also said recently that he has to find that balance between attack and defence so as not to expose the back three. And that sometimes he doesn't. I like the attacking, positive approach. But it acknowledges that he does ask a lot of his defenders.




It happens far more frequently than that.



The film's there for all to see.

Take the 3 goals against Shrewsbury. They weren't missed tackles, lost aerial challenges or marking assignments.
No, they were all attempts to play out 1) Baldwin tried to beat his man 2) Randall and Rawlinson were attempting passes. 3) Both Brindley and Baldwin were trying to control the ball in order to use it.
Correct me if my maths is wrong but I make that 3 out of 3
Many other times, it has been the keeper's passes.

Most fans will recognise this. But you want to win, don't you? So scuttle off to your desk or whatever, say "I'll get him this time'' like a latterday Dick Dastardly, and concoct another way to say black is white.



I'm fine with that. There are many excellent posters here I would look for opinion and analysis before you.
I can't recall you writing a single interesting or insightful thing about the team.

The one thing we cant argue about is the defence being crap. LW has done nothing to rectify the problem, other than keep talking about it...If it wasnt for our attackers, we would be in a relegation battle...

[the_anticlough]

The one thing we cant argue about is the defence being crap. LW has done nothing to rectify the problem, other than keep talking about it...If it wasnt for our attackers, we would be in a relegation battle...

Well the statistics in the league table don't lie, do they?

I'd just like to pose a question. If we were 6th with the same pts won (36 from 20 games) on the back of 1-0 wins, 0-0,1-1 draws and an overall defensive approach, would fans be up in arms about the attack? Would they be clamouring for attackers to be replaced for some missed chances? Or would they be saying they need better service? Would they be more generally satisfied? I don't know the answer, nobody can know. But you can wonder.

Yes, sometimes the individual defending has been shocking but I hope we haven't been trained over the years to expect anodyne, uneventful, cautious football and are freaking out because Notts County games (bar Swindon's) have seen more goals and action than any other club in all 4 divisions.

[durhampie]

Well the statistics in the league table don't lie, do they?

I'd just like to pose a question. If we were 6th with the same pts won (36 from 20 games) on the back of 1-0 wins, 0-0,1-1 draws and an overall defensive approach, would fans be up in arms about the attack? Would they be clamouring for attackers to be replaced for some missed chances? Or would they be saying they need better service? Would they be more generally satisfied? I don't know the answer, nobody can know. But you can wonder.

Yes, sometimes the individual defending has been shocking but I hope we haven't been trained over the years to expect anodyne, uneventful, cautious football and are freaking out because Notts County games (bar Swindon's) have seen more goals and action than any other club in all 4 divisions.

Thats an hypothetical question, simply because we are not in that situation. What we do have is a defence who were very dodgy last season and are even more dodgy this season. We all saw this defensive scenario coming, but nothing was done to address it, other than sign some midfield players... I'm more than happy that we are doing well in the league, but with a little more hindsight from the recruiting team we could and should be at the top of this division.

I have seen nothing from any of those teams we have played this season to suggest why we shouldn't win this league...

[durhampie]

Well the statistics in the league table don't lie, do they?

The stats also tell you that we have conceded 36 goals and that is more than most of the other teams in the Division,,