⚽ Match Thread vs. Salford City [EFL L2] 23.03.24

[BanjoPie]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

Well said Mr Clough

[the_anticlough]

Well said Mr Clough

Er...call me Anti

[BanjoPie]

Er...call me Anti

Ok Aunty

[i961pie]

A choice I think he got badly wrong. Although I'm typing this with hindsight, I would have said the same when handing in the teamsheet at 2pm. Chicksen doesn't have the forward skills to play the wingback role at this level, but he's decent on the left of a back three. My back three would have been Macari, Cameron and Chicksen. Nemane would have been replaced with TAR or Randall, the fact that neither set foot on the pitch makes you wonder why they are here.

My sentiments entirely, I said so has soon as I heard the team selection.

[drillerpie]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

I'm not sure I know what your point is.

First paragraph implies almost everyone's playing badly (not really true IMO) and by your own opinion Cameron has ranged between 'bad' and 'OK', an opinion which I share. Most players have done better than that and a few continue to play well even with our dip in form.

Second paragraph attempts to make it about Maynard I think.

Third paragraph is an appeal to nostalgia, although I'm not sure he gets one bullet point for solid service and another one for solid pro. Or for that matter a bullet point for captaining us to promotion and another for lifting the trophy (as captain).

Fourth paragraph, is it easy? No it isn't, thats why its *****ly important we have people who are good at it. There has been and will be no vitriol from me, but I refuse to deny what is happening in front of my eyes.

Fifth paragraph goes into rhetorical overdrive about hate and scapegoating which I agree are bad, but I'm afriad I think you use these words to try and stop people criticising his performances.

But at the end of all that, I still didn't see any convincing assertion from you that he is actually good at defending, which is kind of the main issue really.

[the_anticlough]

I'm not sure I know what your point is.

First paragraph implies almost everyone's playing badly (not really true IMO) and by your own opinion Cameron has ranged between 'bad' and 'OK', an opinion which I share. Most players have done better than that and a few continue to play well even with our dip in form.

Second paragraph attempts to make it about Maynard I think.

Third paragraph is an appeal to nostalgia, although I'm not sure he gets one bullet point for solid service and another one for solid pro. Or for that matter a bullet point for captaining us to promotion and another for lifting the trophy (as captain).

Fourth paragraph, is it easy? No it isn't, thats why its *****ly important we have people who are good at it. There has been and will be no vitriol from me, but I refuse to deny what is happening in front of my eyes.

Fifth paragraph goes into rhetorical overdrive about hate and scapegoating which I agree are bad, but I'm afriad I think you use these words to try and stop people criticising his performances.

But at the end of all that, I still didn't see any convincing assertion from you that he is actually good at defending, which is kind of the main issue really.

You are to textual analysis what SM is to football league management.

That's a failed dissection there, driller. What's the point really? Go on, ask yourself...
The misreading of 'exposed' in the earlier post told me a lot

FWIW, if anyone's mentoring KC this year they should say that the 'OK' part of his season happened to be a fair run of respectable and solid L2 performances, even with the odd MoM thrown in there. And that for him, in his first full EFL season, is something to build on I think.

Those who want to throw what he's achieved here in the bin, and bury him, are welcome to their Wicker Man vendetta.
I won't be joining them.

[tommopie8]

Haven't bothered to read through the entire thread but if the pelters are for Cameron for their first goal you need to look 5 seconds further back at Austin ****housing a tackle in the middle. Throw yourself in man not this half hearted stick a leg in and hope for the best.

[jackal2]

Haven't bothered to read through the entire thread but if the pelters are for Cameron for their first goal you need to look 5 seconds further back at Austin ****housing a tackle in the middle. Throw yourself in man not this half hearted stick a leg in and hope for the best.

Yep, Austin was culpable too - no excuses for him - but Cameron's role as a defender is to get his teammate out of trouble when something like that happens. Most of the time when defenders have to intervene, it's because something went wrong previously, but that's part of their job description. Cameron's effort to intervene was utterly pathetic and deserves the the criticism it's getting. Our beloved Neil Warnock certainly would have had something to say if one of his centre-halves had surrendered so meekly.

[jackal2]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

I'm certainly not seeking to scapegoat Kyle Cameron and yes, you have to acknowledge his role in last season's success, which was considerable, particularly in terms of his ability on the ball.

The question is, as you point out, can he step up to the standard required in League To where his ability (or lack of ability) as a defender is coming under greater examination compared with the relatively 'flat track' of the National League.

Cameron has been found wanting on numerous occasions this season, and what worries me is that I'm not seeing much learning or improvement. Yesterday's first goal was a classic example.

If Kyle has anywhere near enough defensive and positional awareness then he must have known that as McAleny bore down on goal he needed to stop him, and the bottom line is that he is primarily there to be a defender. What was needed was a challenge that made absolutely sure that ball and man did not get past, even if it meant a foul, which at worst would probably earn a yellow card because the other centre-halves were in reasonable proximity. Instead Cameron made the laziest, most half-hearted, pathetic attempt to win the ball you could ever imagine, and McAleny duly scored.

If you're aspiring to be a Football League (Two) centre-half and you think THAT challenge was a sufficient effort to stop the opponent, then there's no two ways about it, you're on your way back to the National League either with the club you're at, or because you've had to find another club.

I was watching the game live but I gather Mark Stallard on the radio couldn't believe what he saw and remarked upon it. Kyle Cameron said a couple of weeks ago that he and the players were "giving 100%". Well skipper, all credit for your achievements last season, but if that's genuinely 100% of what you've got as a defender, then you're not good enough to do that job in League Two. That's not scapegoating, it's just telling a truth that needs to be understood, not least by him if he's ever going to improve.

[the_anticlough]

which makes you ask 'how is the team picked?'
will it be just SM and Matt S in private consultation? We get that JOB won't be consulted, but do they get the input of Alves and Weal who know more about the squad's capabilities. LW wouldn't go anywhere near Chicks at wing-back for a home game in L2