OT another terrorist attack.

[Acido]

You said no such thing to me but now you say you could see which way the discussion was about to take us [A clairvoyant as well]. Not quite the same thing is it ?
Kerr would be proud of you. Talking of clairvoyance I think you doubt that I have a Muslim friend.

Give it up as a bad job Exile, because most of the time the 'left side' wont budge either when it comes to debates on this subject.

[ragingpup]

Muslims and hiding behind the fact that 'its a religion not a race'. Not acceptable and as said to Exile been covered on here enough on the semantic differences.



You said no such thing to me but now you say you could see which way the discussion was about to take us [A clairvoyant as well]
Not quite the same thing is it?
Kerr would be proud of you
Talking of clairvoyance I think you doubt that I have a Muslim friend

Not clairvoyant - just sadly predictable.

Exile - you can argue the toss about whether saying "I don't think that they are too bothered about bringing unnecessary suffering to humans let alone animals" about ALL Muslims isn't racist.

Are you claiming that you are in the right by saying this? That it is acceptable?

And why won't you answer my very civilised question about what your Muslim friend says when you say this to her?

[ragingpup]

Trying to twist what I am saying, doesn't bother me, I am used to it with the likes of roly, Kerr and others on here. I'm not saying I don't trust the supplier of the halal food, and I thought that was quite clear. I am saying you can't trust the hospital or school that they are telling the truth that the animals were stunned before slaughter. The canteen staff are unlikely to know. If I ask the head at my children's schools they could quite easily lie so as not to create a fuss. They might not even know themselves. How would you find out in a hospital? I am sure asking the lady who comes round with the menu in the morning wouldn't have a clue. I am sure it would take up a considerable amount of people's time relaying the message to others until you find out the answer. And even then the person at the top might not tell the truth.

First line: "You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/halal-and-kosher-slaughter

"However, don't flatter yourself that the difference is that big - many debate whether stunning an animal actually reduces pain and whether it makes any difference to the animal at all." - Well, the RSPCA and several other organisations believe it makes a huge difference.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

Honestly not trying to to twist words - life's too short. I'm not interested in 'winning arguments' and petty bickering. Again, apologies if I have misunderstood.

But why would a school or hospital deliberately deceive people into eating meat that hasn't been stunned? I have a direct say in where we get our school's food from and like any head we get food that is legal and provides for the different dietary requirements.

Why would any head, or hospital boss do differently? I'm confused!

[Exiletyke]

Not clairvoyant - just sadly predictable.

Exile - you can argue the toss about whether saying "I don't think that they are too bothered about bringing unnecessary suffering to humans let alone animals" about ALL Muslims isn't racist.

Are you claiming that you are in the right by saying this? That it is acceptable?

And why won't you answer my very civilised question about what your Muslim friend says when you say this to her?

It might pay you to read before you go off on your crusade to accuse me or anyone else of being racist

This is what I have said on this thread

1 I don't think that they are too bothered about bringing unnecessary suffering to humans let alone animals post 146



2 I too have a friend who is Muslim & I can tell you that she is a lovely person who has just along with many others finished Ramadan
She did not eat or drink anything during daylight hours & by the end of this practice was quite unwell Don't think she was allowed a paracetamol for her blinding headache & I saw her looking pretty poorly
For what? post 148

3 Many Catholics follow the principle of no contraception [artificial] & go through a lifetime of poverty with too many children for them to support but I presume you will accuse me of further racism
So any religion, creed, faith or whatever label you wish to put on it that preaches such idiocy & inflicts such unnecessary hardship on fellow humans can't be right now can it post 150


My references have been to the hardship she has been subjected to by fellow Muslims [leaders of the faith Imams, Ayatollahs etc] & what the hell is racist about that
She follows this fasting belief because she has been brought up to do so & that's religion for you

[Exiletyke]

BTW ragingpup have I understood your assertion that you are a Head teacher?

[ragingpup]

It might pay you to read before you go off on your crusade to accuse me or anyone else of being racist

This is what I have said on this thread

1 I don't think that they are too bothered about bringing unnecessary suffering to humans let alone animals post 146



2 I too have a friend who is Muslim & I can tell you that she is a lovely person who has just along with many others finished Ramadan
She did not eat or drink anything during daylight hours & by the end of this practice was quite unwell Don't think she was allowed a paracetamol for her blinding headache & I saw her looking pretty poorly
For what? post 148

3 Many Catholics follow the principle of no contraception [artificial] & go through a lifetime of poverty with too many children for them to support but I presume you will accuse me of further racism
So any religion, creed, faith or whatever label you wish to put on it that preaches such idiocy & inflicts such unnecessary hardship on fellow humans can't be right now can it post 150


My references have been to the hardship she has been subjected to by fellow Muslims [leaders of the faith Imams, Ayatollahs etc] & what the hell is racist about that
She follows this fasting belief because she has been brought up to do so & that's religion for you

I understand points 2 and 3. We are all brought up with values that we choose to either follow or shed or adults. I understand that parents pass on religious values to their kids and I also would like it if kids were presented with backgrounds of all religions as well as atheist options at home and at school (our schools nationally do very well with this and this will be a major factor in 'disengaging' Muslim kids from their religion as it has done in the last 100 odd years with our own national religions).

My only beef was, as I keep saying, your statement that "I don't think that they are too bothered about bringing unnecessary suffering to humans let alone animals" post 146. From my point of view, it portrays all Muslims, including my family friends and your friend as savage, unfeeling, vicious people.

Is that how you really feel?

And I ask again, how does your Muslim friend respond when you say this to her?

[ragingpup]

BTW ragingpup have I understood your assertion that you are a Head teacher?

I'm on SMT of a London college

[rolymiller]

Saying "I have a muslim friend" in defence of racist views is often a sign someone is racist. Of course he doesn't have a muslim friend. What muslim friend is going to read the stuff he puts on here and feel comfortable with it. Loada bollax and he knows it is.

Exile, go into exile back to Baarnsley. Most tyke fans are welcome on here with reasonable views but you let yourself and your supporters down with your extreme views. Shame on you...

[Ellis_D]

Honestly not trying to to twist words - life's too short. I'm not interested in 'winning arguments' and petty bickering. Again, apologies if I have misunderstood.

But why would a school or hospital deliberately deceive people into eating meat that hasn't been stunned? I have a direct say in where we get our school's food from and like any head we get food that is legal and provides for the different dietary requirements.

Why would any head, or hospital boss do differently? I'm confused!

I'm no saying they WOULD, I am saying it's a possibility. It would be extremely difficult to find out in a hospital one way or another. In a school, if a parent has a concern they can go to the head. The head might not even know/care themselves, in which case they COULD just lie and say even though it is halal, it was stunned first, to stop any more debate about it. They might well know whether it is stunned or not, but again, could lie just to appease the person they are talking to, to stop any further issues.

People do tell lies, and in this case the person could easily see it as a white lie and not worth the drama it might cause by admitting the animals aren't stunned first.

Look, I'm not saying it has happened, just that it's a possibility.

[ragingpup]

I'm no saying they WOULD, I am saying it's a possibility. It would be extremely difficult to find out in a hospital one way or another. In a school, if a parent has a concern they can go to the head. The head might not even know/care themselves, in which case they COULD just lie and say even though it is halal, it was stunned first, to stop any more debate about it. They might well know whether it is stunned or not, but again, could lie just to appease the person they are talking to, to stop any further issues.

People do tell lies, and in this case the person could easily see it as a white lie and not worth the drama it might cause by admitting the animals aren't stunned first.

Look, I'm not saying it has happened, just that it's a possibility.

They could lie; but what I am querying is why you think that they might lie? What's in it for the hospital or school manager to tell a lie about food sources? Just trying to get this straight. Are you saying that the college might buy in non stunned halal meat and lie to a parent that that it has been stunned?

I don't understand why a school would do that? Why not just buy in RSPCA certified food and be clear in your policy (as schools and hospitals are) that that is what you are using?? If you can source 'genuinely' non stunned meat, I'm sure that it would be more expensive anyway.

So why would the school or hospital manager lie? I don't buy that the head/manager might not know - we have to have a transparent policy on catering/food arrangements for parents. I don't think it would occur to any school of hospital leader to buy the less available more expensive product.

Do you have the same suspicion of restaurants? They could buy in non ethical halal/non halal and totally mislead us. They would have much more insentive surely as they can maximise profits? So should we be suspicious of these too?

Not being picky or intentionally twisting words - I'm just trying to follow the logic of your reasoning.