⚽ Match Thread vs. Shrewbury Town FC 01.12.23 [FAC R2]

[thefulltenyards]

Sign both and don't sign a 20 year old academy player on loan. Sounds great to me.

If only football was that easy. Huge difference in wages.

[SmiffyPie]

Only argument with that is we would have got 5k's worth out of Flint, not wasted 1k pw on two appearances.

[matt_magpie]

So, if thats the amount we would offer to a decent defender, then we would probably end up being lumbered with what we already have..

Flints an easy signing if you want to spend that much, played in the championship, went for a few mill I think at some point but you have to pay for that. It’s exactly the same signing as Mcgoldrick, it can’t go wrong unless they get injured, but we know Mcgoldrick came for less than he could have got.

[BigFatPie]

I imagine even the recruitment team would admit they dropped a clanger with the lack of improvement in defence , regardless of how well we’re doing up front. Pointless argument.

Luckily for us we’ve now got a string a games(Stockport aside) that our attacking players should win for us before we can make defensive additions. Fingers crossed.

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

Ok, I'll give my opinion on the Shrews debacle.

The 3 goals were NOT a result of our style of playing out. I would accept goals we concede from errors in playing that way - they are the flip side of a system that produces a lot of possession and plenty of goals. But that was not what happened on Friday.

Goal 1. You do not, under any circumstances, attempt to beat your man when last line of defence. They don't do that at any other time, the playing out involves passing. Not beating your man ON YOUR OWN TOUCHLINE. And if you are going to be that stupid, at least try and go on the outside, not towards your own goal. That error was nothing to do with systems, it was an unfathomable lack of judgement.

Goal 2. Randall (who imo was poor and does not have it at this level) was not attempting a pass, he was trying to recover from being caught on the ball, running back towards his own goal, and just tried to get something on it, somewhere. Then Rawlinson just comes up with a Sunday League header because - I think - his brain didn't work quick enough. Under no system of playing on earth would you head it where he did.

Goal 3. Brindley gets caught in possession trying to bring it down - that much you can put down to the system. But he gets away with it. Ball breaks to Baldwin, who has enough space and time to play a simple pass back to Stone. Nothing to do with the system - in fact arguably that IS the pass in our system. But for some again unfathomable reason he decides he is not playing for NCFC but for Boca Juniors.

I'll make the point again - goals we concede as a result of a system that is challenging for the back 3, who have a lot of responsibility, I could accept. What I can't accept is the repeated complete absence of common sense. It has to stop now. I would rather see players being given a prolonged run in the side who might not be quite as technically able defensively but are at least reliable. So we can ask teams to come and beat us rather than handing things out on a plate. If that means Macari and Tipton so be it. I haven't seen a lot of Tipton (has anyone?) but he did at least avoid any clangers on Friday.

That was the most gut-wrenching feeling on Friday knowing that you have lost a game that the other team nowhere near deserved to win, especially with a potentially massive prize on offer. We didn't have our first 11 out, that was never going to happen, but Shrewsbury were so poor we didn't even need the first eleven.

Plus points were Gosling actually looked like a footballer for the first time. We have some promising academy talent.
Negatives - Randall can't play. Never looked like beating his man - or any man - all night and can't defend for toffee so what's he for? Don't understand why Nemane didn't play wide with Randall inside.

As far as Flint at Mansfield is concerned, from what I saw at the Lane I'm not sure he is comfortable enough with the ball at his feet to meet LW's needs. Just a feeling.

I know that was long but I feel better now. 😁

[Elite_Pie]

Goal 1. You do not, under any circumstances, attempt to beat your man when last line of defence. They don't do that at any other time, the playing out involves passing. Not beating your man ON YOUR OWN TOUCHLINE. And if you are going to be that stupid, at least try and go on the outside, not towards your own goal. That error was nothing to do with systems, it was an unfathomable lack of judgement.

Goal 2. Randall (who imo was poor and does not have it at this level) was not attempting a pass, he was trying to recover from being caught on the ball, running back towards his own goal, and just tried to get something on it, somewhere. Then Rawlinson just comes up with a Sunday League header because - I think - his brain didn't work quick enough. Under no system of playing on earth would you head it where he did.

Goal 3. Brindley gets caught in possession trying to bring it down - that much you can put down to the system. But he gets away with it. Ball breaks to Baldwin, who has enough space and time to play a simple pass back to Stone. Nothing to do with the system - in fact arguably that IS the pass in our system. But for some again unfathomable reason he decides he is not playing for NCFC but for Boca Juniors.

Excellent summary of the goals we conceded, just what I thought.

The blame lies with the players concerned, not the system.

[countygump]

Excellent summary of the goals we conceded, just what I thought.

The blame lies with the players concerned, not the system.

Nah it's certainly not the system. Even Man C's defender put their foot through the ball on occassion and we need to identify when to do exactly the same. On an slippy pitch on a cold evening against a higher level team might just be the time to start.

[drillerpie]

Drillerpie back to his disingenuous best...Here are the facts I set out which you want to call opinions

1) We have only 3 defenders.

2) They, along with the keeper, are charged with playing the ball out (usually between the 3 of them) and are expected to keep the ball in play as much as possible.

3)They see more of the ball than any other outfield players.

4) Ideally we want to 'play through the press' to create overloads further up the pitch.

But you just want to win an argument, don't you? As always. Mr. Anally Retentive. OK then, that we play a back 3 is just my opinion. You win.



He's also said recently that he has to find that balance between attack and defence so as not to expose the back three. And that sometimes he doesn't. I like the attacking, positive approach. But it acknowledges that he does ask a lot of his defenders.




It happens far more frequently than that.



The film's there for all to see.

Take the 3 goals against Shrewsbury. They weren't missed tackles, lost aerial challenges or marking assignments.
No, they were all attempts to play out 1) Baldwin tried to beat his man 2) Randall and Rawlinson were attempting passes. 3) Both Brindley and Baldwin were trying to control the ball in order to use it.
Correct me if my maths is wrong but I make that 3 out of 3
Many other times, it has been the keeper's passes.

Most fans will recognise this. But you want to win, don't you? So scuttle off to your desk or whatever, say "I'll get him this time'' like a latterday Dick Dastardly, and concoct another way to say black is white.



I'm fine with that. There are many excellent posters here I would look for opinion and analysis before you.
I can't recall you writing a single interesting or insightful thing about the team.

I think you are projecting with a lot of the personal stuff you wrote there.

I'm afraid I still don't agree with you about what is happening on the pitch. Your interpretation of what happened to cause the goals is hard to take seriously IMO.

I didn't want to get into a personal back and forth so I have no problem saying I do read your posts and find them interesting, even if they are sometimes a bit heavy on the tactical mumbo jumbo for a dinosaur like me.

When we debated this a couple of months ago your position was that the defenders were good enough and should be kept, apart from Brindley. Now you are writing that we need to wait for January and upgrades (plural), while my position hasn't changed, so maybe I am a tiny bit more insightful than you give me credit for.

[the_anticlough]

I think you are projecting with a lot of the personal stuff you wrote there.

I'm afraid I still don't agree with you about what is happening on the pitch. Your interpretation of what happened to cause the goals is hard to take seriously IMO.

I didn't want to get into a personal back and forth so I have no problem saying I do read your posts and find them interesting, even if they are sometimes a bit heavy on the tactical mumbo jumbo for a dinosaur like me.

When we debated this a couple of months ago your position was that the defenders were good enough and should be kept, apart from Brindley. Now you are writing that we need to wait for January and upgrades (plural), while my position hasn't changed, so maybe I am a tiny bit more insightful than you give me credit for.

Listen, my post was OTT.
Probably what triggered that was the description of certain football arguments as 'gaslighting'. If you've been on NCM long enough you'll have seen some unsavoury behaviours. But in all my time reading this site I don't think I seen
'a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or unable to trust themselves' the definition of gaslighting

Disagreeing about football matches can never stretch to that IMO. Fans will see the game differently.

On the upgrades, I have in mind RCB of course, be that the permanent signing of Macari or another direction. It was on the top of my list for expected summer recruitment and was pretty shocked it didn't happen.

The other I have in mind is a keeper possibly or a player for all positions to add extra depth to the squad. I'll not stop backing Baldwin and Cameron, I enjoy watching them too much and grateful for what they've achieved. You can't keep on making mistakes after mistake though, there have to be consequences for that. Let's see.

Those two, and the defence in general are probably the biggest losers from the Matty Palmer injury. We need to control games to relieve the pressure on the defence, the number of times teams can come back at us and ask questions of the back line. I think LW's whole philosophy is based on being able to dominate the game so that we can play 3 ball playing defenders.

Anyway, you do post good stuff about the team so FWIW I take that back.

[SmiffyPie]

Listen, my post was OTT.
Probably what triggered that was the description of certain football arguments as 'gaslighting'. If you've been on NCM long enough you'll have seen some unsavoury behaviours. But in all my time reading this site I don't think I seen
'a form of psychological abuse where a person causes someone to question their sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or unable to trust themselves'

A bit of an out of context example, try "Narcissistic gaslighting doesn’t differ from normal gaslighting, but it may be used for slightly different manipulative purposes. For instance, a narcissist might use these tactics to preserve or protect their ego, keep others from challenging them, or maintain a sense of superiority over others." And there is a degree of tongue in cheek involved.