O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

[magpie_mania]

As opposed to Patel and Mogg?

Yup.. you’ve sold it to me

Good point. Well it would be if JRM is chancellor!

[BigFatPie]

Hated?… nah… only by the establishment, never ordinary people. A man of principle, honesty and integrity… values sadly lacking in the current Labour regime. I went to many of the rally’s where he spoke… thousands upon thousands turned up to listen to him speak.

Remember Glastonbury?

https://youtu.be/w2uW5YsJkOE

Corbyn only spoke to people who already agreed with him. He had no interest or ability to persuade the 10-15 % of people who switch parties and are the key to winning an election. And yes the working class people who I worked/mixed/socialised with did hate him, and if they didn’t hate him, they never thought he was a credible choice as PM. Hence why we have a right wing troglodyte as an MP in Lincoln rather than the still working nurse we had until 2019. And all that’s before we mention anti semitism and pals like Chris Williamson who should never have been anywhere near the Labour Party let alone be an MP.

I fully get why anyone might think Starmer isn’t the most inspiring character as Labour leader. The old saying about not letting perfect be the enemy of good very much holds though, and I want the Labour Party in power where they invariably improve people’s lives more than the self serving cretins who’ve we had for the last 12 years.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Hated?… nah… only by the establishment, never ordinary people. A man of principle, honesty and integrity… values sadly lacking in the current Labour regime. I went to many of the rally’s where he spoke… thousands upon thousands turned up to listen to him speak.

Remember Glastonbury?

https://youtu.be/w2uW5YsJkOE

Sorry GP but he (Corbyn) was hated by the ordinary man because of his links to the IRA , they believe he was part of them as opposed to the one discussing peace with them! i know many people that detested him for this and no matter what you say wouldn't get past those links. Pair this with him wanting rid of our nuclear arms leaving us wide open to an invasion from Russia then he has a full house of detractors and voters see him as unelectable !

[applepie2]

People need to stop voting for Tories and Labour (while they remain so conservative and opposed to a fair voting system). Only then will this rotten political system of ours collapse and be replaced by something better - more representative, fairer, and open to different voices that will always be drowned out or never heard under FPTP.

We have had progress over centuries to lessen the power of one person (the monarch) and every now and then to increase the number and variety of people who can exercise some power - barons (magna carta), parliament (the civil war), men in general (getting rid of rotten boroughs), women (suffragette movement), younger people (reductions in minimum voting age).

It’s high time we extended a bit further, and made each vote equal (proportional representation) instead of giving swing voters in marginals all the power to decide which of Labour and Conservatives gets to be dictator for the next five years. We’ve never actually given democracy a try.

My vote has never made any difference to who forms the Government - I’ve always lived in a safe seat (Lib Dem or Labour). Has yours?

[the_anticlough]

It’s high time we extended a bit further, and made each vote equal (proportional representation) instead of giving swing voters in marginals all the power to decide which of Labour and Conservatives gets to be dictator for the next five years. We’ve never actually given democracy a try.

My vote has never made any difference to who forms the Government - I’ve always lived in a safe seat (Lib Dem or Labour). Has yours?

No, never.

And one thing we can dismiss is the claim that we can't break the link between voters and their constituency MP. What bollox.

Take the recent example - Pincher, the Tory whip ***ually assaulted men in bars after a long track record of doing the same. Apparently, he didn't respond to people anyway. But now he's gone AWOL, 'getting help' but is currently unavailable to his constituents and will be for an indefinite period. That's what they usually do when what they've done is so embarrassing they can't face people, but so much of that constituent-MP bond, don't you think?

[i961pie]

Sorry GP but he (Corbyn) was hated by the ordinary man because of his links to the IRA , they believe he was part of them as opposed to the one discussing peace with them! i know many people that detested him for this and no matter what you say wouldn't get past those links. Pair this with him wanting rid of our nuclear arms leaving us wide open to an invasion from Russia then he has a full house of detractors and voters see him as unelectable !

I agree, he also seemed to hate this country.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

I agree, he also seemed to hate this country.

He probably just hated the Tories and their Tory ways , who can blame him !

[the_anticlough]

He probably just hated the Tories and their Tory ways , who can blame him !

Wanting your country to be better, fairer, happier is the best definition of patriotism there is.

[applepie2]

The big problem in my view remains that the number of people willing to vote for an old fashioned 'economic left' is quite high, but the economic left is so wedded to the current 'cultural left' or 'intellectual left' (mass immigration, extreme political correctness, perceived or real anti patriotism) that people would probably prefer to vote for the far right, which offers the working class something similar to the economic left but without the compromise on cultural issues.

I agreed with you up to this point - but the far right do not offer the working class something similar to the economic left. Instead they offer low tax, low public service, everyone for himself, which may seem fine for those who are coping but is a disaster for anyone who hits a bad patch. And it has, in my opinion, some very nasty social consequences.

[drillerpie]

I agreed with you up to this point - but the far right do not offer the working class something similar to the economic left. Instead they offer low tax, low public service, everyone for himself, which may seem fine for those who are coping but is a disaster for anyone who hits a bad patch. And it has, in my opinion, some very nasty social consequences.

I'm talking about further to the right than austerity Conservatives. Completely agree about the potential for nasty social consequences.