Universal Income?

[mickd1961]

No turnaround but am I missing something! There are thousands of individuals who have millions in assets but don’t declare any salary due to vast savings. So are we happy these people get this universal credit? We all know about the greedy wealthy t wats who tried to claim back bounce back loans!

I bet not many people who didn’t need the £67 per month energy support gave it back! There’s a sense of entitlement to those with money in that - if others get it then they should too! So much for helping those in need!

If you’ve paid tax and National Insurance like me for 45 years I feel absolutely no embarrassment about accepting anything like the hand outs you mention.

As for the £1600 proposed, you talk about helping people……THIS is the best way of making sure nobody misses out.

You seem so focused on the rich and the scammers that you’re missing the main point……the destitute get a major boost.

You don’t just stop doing good because a bad Apple benefits.

[baggiematt]

I would struggle with what the value of £1600 is when everyone gets it. Currently, you could probably just about live on that. But if the country bumps prices up (which they would), £1,600 will become too little and we have the same problems as before.

The value of money is often just dependant on how much there is of it knocking about.

You then have to think what the point was in the first place.

[baggieal]

I would struggle with what the value of £1600 is when everyone gets it. Currently, you could probably just about live on that. But if the country bumps prices up (which they would), £1,600 will become too little and we have the same problems as before.

The value of money is often just dependant on how much there is of it knocking about.

You then have to think what the point was in the first place.

Knowing this country the 1,600 will be paid to everyone arriving on a dinghy too! Harry might be over to collect his share too!

Still laughable how every person received the £67 energy allowance! How many of these
F uckers on 200 grand a year plus donated it?

Absolute laughing stock of a country!!

The poor get poorer whilst the rich get richer! Even a lottery winner of many millions still collects his state pension as typical comment - I paid into the system!! Ha ha

[mickd1961]

Knowing this country the 1,600 will be paid to everyone arriving on a dinghy too! Harry might be over to collect his share too!

Still laughable how every person received the £67 energy allowance! How many of these
F uckers on 200 grand a year plus donated it?

Absolute laughing stock of a country!!

The poor get poorer whilst the rich get richer! Even a lottery winner of many millions still collects his state pension as typical comment - I paid into the system!! Ha ha

So that’ll be me then?

I’d rather make the decision as to what I do with any handouts given regardless of how much I own.

I choose to pass mine on to my kids and grandkids mainly because charities are a joke these days and pay huge salaries to people who run them.

It’s pretty easy to get the £1600 back from those who don’t need it by just altering their tax code in the way they would with me.

If people want to dodge their tax responsibilities then that’s a matter for them, their conscience and HMRC.

[baggieal]

So that’ll be me then?

I’d rather make the decision as to what I do with any handouts given regardless of how much I own.

I choose to pass mine on to my kids and grandkids mainly because charities are a joke these days and pay huge salaries to people who run them.

It’s pretty easy to get the £1600 back from those who don’t need it by just altering their tax code in the way they would with me.

If people want to dodge their tax responsibilities then that’s a matter for them, their conscience and HMRC.

You are honest Mick but sadly even many with millions are not! Rishi - Boris and Harry are just three names! The bounce back loans were the biggest fiddle going and this was mainly from companies and people with money! The rich get richer by feathering their own nests or generally screwing those who are struggling! Even a Dishy on that t wat Rishi was fiddled by numerous restaurants. Lets say a person has 3/5 million in assets and has not had an income ( don't need to ) then they could pocket the universal credit sum too ( legally ) but it's immoral! Their answer would be - why shouldn't we as we have paid into the system and everyone else gets it - blah blah!

[mickd1961]

You are honest Mick but sadly even many with millions are not! Rishi - Boris and Harry are just three names! The bounce back loans were the biggest fiddle going and this was mainly from companies and people with money! The rich get richer by feathering their own nests or generally screwing those who are struggling! Even a Dishy on that t wat Rishi was fiddled by numerous restaurants. Let’s you say a person has 3/5 million in assets and has not had an income ( don't need to ) then they could pocket the universal credit sum too ( legally ) but it's immoral! Their answer would be - why shouldn't we as we have paid into the system and everyone else gets it - blah blah!

If you pay your tax and qualify for the payout then it’s up to you what you do with it.

Just deal with your own conscience in life rather than worrying about other people’s lack of morality.

I haven’t the energy available to do the hating of others anymore.

It’s their problem.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Everyone gets it! Bit like the energy payments of £67 given to everyone - why would you give these payments to those who are not struggling! I can honestly say - I donated my payments to charity as should many of others if they cared about those struggling.

So someone who is wealthy who has not shown an income for let’s say 2 years - why should they get this universal credit payment?

Sorry - I don’t get it! We all know those usually with money are the meanest of all and only interested in feathering their own nests!

OK with no cricket today I'll have a crude go at explaining how UBI might work and answer what you don't get.

These figures are just some guesses from me so not from anyone who has anything like the understanding needed to work out the economics.

All benefits and pensions would be stopped saving £350 billion pa.

Everyone would get £19k UBI and pay no tax on it.

A low earner presently on £20k picks up £17k. With UBI their gross would be £39k but the extra would be heavily taxed so they might pick up £28k

Someone on £40k presently picks up £30k . UBI gross is £59k extra tax takes them down to perhaps £35k.

Somewhere there would be a cut off figure whereby if you earn more then the tax would take away at least the £19k

£100k + earners would be very heavily taxed taking away more than the £19k extra from UBI. SO ALTHOUGH THE RICH 'GET IT' THEY DON'T KEEP IT!'

Different to you I believe vast majority of 'the rich' would happily give up a bit if it meant they didn't have to wake up each day to numerous genuine hard luck stories about food banks etc.

Would the benefit payments saved and the extra tax collected pay for all this? No idea!

There has been some small pilot schemes and there have apparently been no evidence of people being lazier or less willing to work It is reckoned that low earners for instance would still be motivated to work and earn the extra.

No idea if this is economically viable and no one is advocating we start it tomorrow. Just that some think it's an interesting concept worthy of some consideration. Don't you think?

[mickd1961]

OK with no cricket today I'll have a crude go at explaining how UBI might work and answer what you don't get.

These figures are just some guesses from me so not from anyone who has anything like the understanding needed to work out the economics.

All benefits and pensions would be stopped saving £350 billion pa.

Everyone would get £19k UBI and pay no tax on it.

A low earner presently on £20k picks up £17k. With UBI their gross would be £39k but the extra would be heavily taxed so they might pick up £28k

Someone on £40k presently picks up £30k . UBI gross is £59k extra tax takes them down to perhaps £35k.

Somewhere there would be a cut off figure whereby if you earn more then the tax would take away at least the £19k

£100k + earners would be very heavily taxed taking away more than the £19k extra from UBI. SO ALTHOUGH THE RICH 'GET IT' THEY DON'T KEEP IT!'

Different to you I believe vast majority of 'the rich' would happily give up a bit if it meant they didn't have to wake up each day to numerous genuine hard luck stories about food banks etc.

Would the benefit payments saved and the extra tax collected pay for all this? No idea!

There has been some small pilot schemes and there have apparently been no evidence of people being lazier or less willing to work It is reckoned that low earners for instance would still be motivated to work and earn the extra.

No idea if this is economically viable and no one is advocating we start it tomorrow. Just that some think it's an interesting concept worthy of some consideration. Don't you think?

Really well explained 923.

[baggieal]

OK with no cricket today I'll have a crude go at explaining how UBI might work and answer what you don't get.

These figures are just some guesses from me so not from anyone who has anything like the understanding needed to work out the economics.

All benefits and pensions would be stopped saving £350 billion pa.

Everyone would get £19k UBI and pay no tax on it.

A low earner presently on £20k picks up £17k. With UBI their gross would be £39k but the extra would be heavily taxed so they might pick up £28k

Someone on £40k presently picks up £30k . UBI gross is £59k extra tax takes them down to perhaps £35k.

Somewhere there would be a cut off figure whereby if you earn more then the tax would take away at least the £19k

£100k + earners would be very heavily taxed taking away more than the £19k extra from UBI. SO ALTHOUGH THE RICH 'GET IT' THEY DON'T KEEP IT!'

Different to you I believe vast majority of 'the rich' would happily give up a bit if it meant they didn't have to wake up each day to numerous genuine hard luck stories about food banks etc.

Would the benefit payments saved and the extra tax collected pay for all this? No idea!

There has been some small pilot schemes and there have apparently been no evidence of people being lazier or less willing to work It is reckoned that low earners for instance would still be motivated to work and earn the extra.

No idea if this is economically viable and no one is advocating we start it tomorrow. Just that some think it's an interesting concept worthy of some consideration. Don't you think?

Well explained but that said - can’t see why there’s not a code at source ( like a student loan ) where an employer only pays this out to any individual who earns less than 50K for example. Don’t like the ‘ everyone gets it ‘ because why and it’s prone to fiddling! It was crazy how the government contributed energy payments for example to those on 100K plus who certainly didn’t need it!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

Well explained but that said - can’t see why there’s not a code at source ( like a student loan ) where an employer only pays this out to any individual who earns less than 50K for example. Don’t like the ‘ everyone gets it ‘ because why and it’s prone to fiddling! It was crazy how the government contributed energy payments for example to those on 100K plus who certainly didn’t need it!

You're going to have to explain to me how if everyone gets it anyone can fiddle it!