QPR/Blatter

[tricky1972]

Tricky:

I suspect that you are right in that we have an agenda, in that we wish the team that beat us in the playoffs to be punished for having reached that final by nefarious means. Hands up, I do!

BUT

Your agenda is equally personal / biased. If QPR escape punishment, then Forest (and a couple of others) can quite legitimately seek to have their punishments overturned too.

So get off your high horse and accept that, as usual, Derby and forest have mutually incompatible aspirations vis a vis QPR.

I disagree on a couple of counts.

1. I don't think that if QPR are sucessful changes our case at all. They are arguing they didn't lose as much as is being argued, our accounts clearly say we did. No argument.

2. I don't actually have a problem with our punishment, I think a season of not having fan pressured expectation of spend and succeed could do us good.

That said, I do think FFP is a ridiculous crock! But then again, I'

[tricky1972]

Did QPR break the rules? Yes

Do they deserved to be punished? Yes

Is £58m fine fair? Not really, it would be like going £60 overdrawn at the bank, and getting a £60 charge for it. Which the OFT would never allow!

Did their rulebreaking cost Derby promotion? No, the Rams would have just bottled it against someone else had QPR not been allowed to play in the play-offs!

Get over it!!!

So by your reckoning, your a member of an organisation, the rules are agreed democratically by a majority vote of the members of that organisation, but its fine to ignore those rules you dont like?

The way the fine is calculated is quite clear, QPR deliberately chose to ignore those rules banking on getting promoted and not having to comply - its backfired, now they should put up or go and join the conference...simples!![/quote]

Following up with my metaphor, it was clear in banks rules what they

[Ramondo]

Did QPR break the rules? Yes

Do they deserved to be punished? Yes

Is £58m fine fair? Not really, it would be like going £60 overdrawn at the bank, and getting a £60 charge for it. Which the OFT would never allow!

Did their rulebreaking cost Derby promotion? No, the Rams would have just bottled it against someone else had QPR not been allowed to play in the play-offs!

Get over it!!!

So by your reckoning, your a member of an organisation, the rules are agreed democratically by a majority vote of the members of that organisation, but its fine to ignore those rules you dont like?

The way the fine is calculated is quite clear, QPR deliberately chose to ignore those rules banking on getting promoted and not having to comply - its backfired, now they should put up or go and join the conference...simples!![/quote]

Following up with my

[tricky1972]

Did QPR break the rules? Yes

Do they deserved to be punished? Yes

Is £58m fine fair? Not really, it would be like going £60 overdrawn at the bank, and getting a £60 charge for it. Which the OFT would never allow!

Did their rulebreaking cost Derby promotion? No, the Rams would have just bottled it against someone else had QPR not been allowed to play in the play-offs!

Get over it!!!

So by your reckoning, your a member of an organisation, the rules are agreed democratically by a majority vote of the members of that organisation, but its fine to ignore those rules you dont like?

The way the fine is calculated is quite clear, QPR deliberately chose to ignore those rules banking on getting promoted and not having to comply - its backfired, now they should put up or go and join the conferen

[SlimyLimey]

The new season starts in @ 9 weeks time, and I don't see anything happening regarding QPR.
Has this just been swept under the carpet?
The fixtures come out in less than two weeks, if they show QPR in the Championship, will that create a stir in the media?
How can some teams be punished while others seem above the law?

[ramspride]

The new season starts in @ 9 weeks time, and I don't see anything happening regarding QPR.
Has this just been swept under the carpet?
The fixtures come out in less than two weeks, if they show QPR in the Championship, will that create a stir in the media?
How can some teams be punished while others seem above the law?

Because
1 There are a London club.
2 Our Carry managed them.
3 They have very cleverly taken the matter to court.
4 The FL haven't got the guts to hammer them.

[tricky1972]

The new season starts in @ 9 weeks time, and I don't see anything happening regarding QPR.
Has this just been swept under the carpet?
The fixtures come out in less than two weeks, if they show QPR in the Championship, will that create a stir in the media?
How can some teams be punished while others seem above the law?

No, it won't cause a stir at all, given that we know thet QPR are in the Championship next season.

They have agreed to pay the FFP fine, should there be one, as determined by an independent legal panel. This means that they avoid any possible demotion/ expulsion from the football league.

It is my understanding that the panel has to determine 2 things.

Firstly, whether FFP is legal, which I suspect it will be.
Secondly, how much QPR actually lost, over and above the alloable limits. That could be anything between £58m and nothing. Which could result in a fine somewhere between £50m and zero!!

But the upshot of

[Akwesasne]

The new season starts in @ 9 weeks time, and I don't see anything happening regarding QPR.
Has this just been swept under the carpet?
The fixtures come out in less than two weeks, if they show QPR in the Championship, will that create a stir in the media?
How can some teams be punished while others seem above the law?

No, it won't cause a stir at all, given that we know thet QPR are in the Championship next season.

They have agreed to pay the FFP fine, should there be one, as determined by an independent legal panel. This means that they avoid any possible demotion/ expulsion from the football league.

It is my understanding that the panel has to determine 2 things.

Firstly, whether FFP is legal, which I suspect it will be.
Secondly, how much QPR actually lost, over and above the alloable limits. That could be anything between £58m and nothing. Which could result in a fine somew

[AnagRam]

Football is a sport governed by all sorts of rules yet amazingly it seems there can be great selectivity as regards which of them are ultimately upheld. A player picks up an innocuous card in a nothing match and may miss a Cup Final as a result, but those are the rules. A side plays a technically ineligible player by mistake and they are docked potentially crucial points, or perhaps an ineligible sub isd by a team that wins convincingly in the cup but is still forced out of the competition because 'those are the rules'. Personally I have no objection to such outcomes, however harsh, as those, after all, are indeed the rules. There must be something wrong though when a club is still apparently allowed to show flagrant disregard for one particular set of rules, which all other sides in the same competition have adhered to throughout the season, and that - in my opinion - is why QPR should be punished.

[tricky1972]

that mean the independent panel has the right to rescind the fine and maybe increase it, and who pays the costs of such a panel. Does that depend on who wins ?

Not quite, no.

The first point is to decide if the rule has any legal basis, if not, that's the end of FFP in the football league... not going to happen!

So assuming that it is deemed enforceable, the amount of fine is quite clearly laid out in the rules; that being an amount equal to the amount lost above the allowable loss limit. BUT what is then called into question is how much did QPR actually lose, and this is the crux of the case. QPR are claiming their loses were within FFP limits, thus they owe nothing. The FL are saying they 'overspent' by £58m, so the fine should be around £50m. (Basically was the write off of a loan, 'fair' or not)

So, in short the panel doesn't determine the value of the fine, they just give a binding interpretation of the clubs financial acc