Las Ramblas

[1972Claret]

Hi TEC: I really do not sound as if I am attacking you , but its a problem if as you say " eradicate the source" What is their source?
To me its a distortion of a certain religion,some can say " the scripture means this ,other's will say no, it can be taken like this! When these 'learned' (?) fanatics have studied that distorted form. To me all religion is dogmatic, so how can you break that 'belief' system?
Through ' brainwashing, 'or their 'learning', it's what they then believe!! A man can say "all cats eat frogs !" If he believe's it well its pretty harmless but when he says, "God wrote this ,or said, this then it's very very dangerous, or we have all to be like this,and believe this.So what can you do ? I knew a man that said to me, I will go to my grave a Marxist!! So even education will not help as it's his ingrained,deep rooted belief. !

Who is to say which interpretation is the "distortion"? We assume it is the one that fits closest to western values. The whole concept of taking beliefs from a story book and believing in an ill defined God that can validate those beliefs is scary. Difficult to ever find a solution until we start supporting rationality over religious freedoms and act accordingly.

[oldcolner]

I think 90% of people might do that but it's converting the 10% when democracy, freedom of expression and Human Rights legislation etc often conspires against the interests of the majority.

A second attack has led to 5 "terrorist" being shot and killed 100 miles south of Barca.

In this instance it seems Spanish Police were given advice two months ago that the Ramblas was a target but appear to,have done little

Perhaps we need to focus on highly populated pedestrianised streets that can be easily accessed from a road.

Meantime no Brits mentioned yet

Citizens of some 24 countries were killed or injured in the Las Ramblas attack, the Catalan government has said.
Spaniard Francisco López RodrÃ*guez, in his 60s, is the first named victim.
Italy's foreign ministry confirmed two Italian citizens had died. One Belgian national has also been confirmed dead.
France's foreign ministry said on Friday that 26 French nationals were injured, with at least 11 in a serious condition.
Thirteen German citizens were wounded, some seriously.
A five-year-old Irish boy suffered a broken leg.
Hong Kong, Taiwan and Greece are among those saying their citizens were injured. Pakistani, Philippine, Venezuelan, Australian, Romanian, Peruvian, Dutch, Danish, Algerian and Chinese nationals were also among the casualties, officials said.

[army88]

Who is to say which interpretation is the "distortion"? We assume it is the one that fits closest to western values. The whole concept of taking beliefs from a story book and believing in an ill defined God that can validate those beliefs is scary. Difficult to ever find a solution until we start supporting rationality over religious freedoms and act accordingly.

Problem is 1972 we have literally bent over backwards to let these people integrate into our society, nature being what it is they now think we owe them while we have become second rate citizens in our own country.

There is never a pro action taken --- in most cases we know who a lot of these people are and yet we sit on our hands waiting for them to murder our families and friends and innocent people.

I've posted this before that I really believe if the powers that be don't get a grip of this and irradicate the problem, people will start to do things themselves ( civil war springs to mind).

I myself am no way racist and know what I believe to be Muslims who are good people , sadly reality for them is when push comes to shove which side will they be on I don't think it will be ours.

[1972Claret]

I don't disagree. I think that all manner of wrongs continue to be allowed to happen because we are not allowed to criticise religion in our society. I don't think it is right to circumcise little boys before they have a choice, I don't believe that the wearing a burka is a truly free choice for most women who wear it, I don't think it is right for KFC to sell chicken that is slaughtered cruelly. All these things happen because of the special licence given to religious beliefs and I could give similar examples from other religions. What I am saying is that we need to be more rational and see things for what they are and the harm they do and stop providing special protection and privilege just because something is done in the name of religion. Sadly, our society is miles away from this and it doesn't seem to get better despite recent horrors. You only have to look at the Labour shadow minister who has just had to resign for saying what she and many others believe which is then misinterpreted to mean she is vilifying a whole community rather than just the perpetrators within it. We are just not in a rational place.