Roma

[Notts78]

I think what the poster is getting at, English clubs were banned from European football for a number of years but nothing substantial happens to other countries. FIFA and EUFA keep harping on about racism but do nothing much to countries/clubs from Russia, Spain and many from the eastern bloc who continually abuse black players.

And how do FIFA deal with this? Give them a World Cup. Complete shambles.

[Bohinen]

That was the F.A's fault for making a knee-jerk reaction, withdrawing all English clubs from European competitions for 12 months, implying an admission of guilt before the results of the Heysel enquiry were published. The authorities were largely to blame for messing up the ticketing allocation and the state of the ground was an absolute disgrace, definitely not fit for staging a European final, it was falling to bits. Blaming Liverpool fans conveniently got UEFA off the hook. Juve fans were far more to blame for what happened, if you watch the raw footage the Italian fans carried on rioting after the collapse of the wall, they were fighting the police on the pitch.
Liverpool had no previous for trouble in Europe or at home, in fact they had a reputation for being among the better behaved supporters up to that time. They retaliated, which they shouldn't have done, but Juve caused the trouble that night, no question about it.

Italian fans were rioting at least as far back as 1970 - Napoli fans smashing up their own ground and setting it on fire, three or four years before things got serious in England. The trouble at Euro 80 (Tear gas incident) was also the fault of the Italians. England fans were bad, but Italians were worse.

I take some of those points, but I'm not buying the Liverpool were innocent at Heysel argument, having watched documentaries on it shortly after the event, as well as being part of the live TV audience. The problem was, tensions were high because of what Roma fans had done to Liverpool the previous year. I think rumours spread of stabbings that day and they wanted revenge. Then there were some Liverpool fans in the Juventus end who got a bit of a kicking and that was the excuse to invade, which is what they did.

What it doesn't excuse, for example, is Liverpool fans throwing lumps of concrete at a ****age girl standing on that wall to escape, and carrying on what they did after it was obvious how serious the situation was. Also, Liverpool did cause trouble before Heysel, as anyone who ever went there at the time can vouch for. People off our coach in 81/82 had their trainers, jumpers and watches stolen. Forest fans I know have stories about people being hit with hammers.

When I went to Old Trafford that year, a policeman told me that Liverpool fans had played noughts and crosses on a United fan's back with a Stanley knife. They are no angels.

[Airborn Pie]

I take some of those points, but I'm not buying the Liverpool were innocent at Heysel argument, having watched documentaries on it shortly after the event, as well as being part of the live TV audience. The problem was, tensions were high because of what Roma fans had done to Liverpool the previous year. I think rumours spread of stabbings that day and they wanted revenge. Then there were some Liverpool fans in the Juventus end who got a bit of a kicking and that was the excuse to invade, which is what they did.

What it doesn't excuse, for example, is Liverpool fans throwing lumps of concrete at a ****age girl standing on that wall to escape, and carrying on what they did after it was obvious how serious the situation was. Also, Liverpool did cause trouble before Heysel, as anyone who ever went there at the time can vouch for. People off our coach in 81/82 had their trainers, jumpers and watches stolen. Forest fans I know have stories about people being hit with hammers.

When I went to Old Trafford that year, a policeman told me that Liverpool fans had played noughts and crosses on a United fan's back with a Stanley knife. They are no angels.

Can we answer the OP, why, in the face of such atrocious violence, do none British clubs, not get an EU ban for their behaviour.

The guilt or otherwise, of Liverpool fans is irrelevant to my point.

[upthemaggies]

Can we answer the OP, why, in the face of such atrocious violence, do none British clubs, not get an EU ban for their behaviour.

Probably because it's known as "the English disease", we have the reputation for starting it. Maybe that's because Spurs fans rioted at the 1974 UEFA Cup final 2nd leg in Holland where 200 people were hurt followed by Leeds fans rioting a year later in the European Cup final, then Man United thrown out of Europe in 1977 but re-instated after an appeal (they were made to play a home game at Plymouth's ground!)

[Thordardaughter]

I think what the poster is getting at, English clubs were banned from European football for a number of years but nothing substantial happens to other countries. FIFA and EUFA keep harping on about racism but do nothing much to countries/clubs from Russia, Spain and many from the eastern bloc who continually abuse black players.

Apologies it appears I did miss the point and to backtrack I do disagree with the violence and racism being dealt with very differently when other countries are involved. The problem lies with FIFA, that corrupt organisation that simply does as it likes. Unfortunately the FA is going the same way dominated by middle/upper class white males who aren’t open to broadening their horizons and stepping into the 20th century.

[i961pie]

Apologies it appears I did miss the point and to backtrack I do disagree with the violence and racism being dealt with very differently when other countries are involved. The problem lies with FIFA, that corrupt organisation that simply does as it likes. Unfortunately the FA is going the same way dominated by middle/upper class white males who aren’t open to broadening their horizons and stepping into the 20th century.

Blimey if they aren't in the 20th century yet their is no hope.

[sidders]

Blimey if they aren't in the 20th century yet their is no hope.

i961, fancy you giving me an open gaol like that - 'their'. This post gives you an opportunity to level up if you're awake today.

[Mapperleypie]

i961, fancy you giving me an open gaol like that - 'their'. This post gives you an opportunity to level up if you're awake today.

Who mentioned prison?

[HaylePie]

Unfortunately the FA is going the same way dominated by middle/upper class white males who aren’t open to broadening their horizons and stepping into the 20th century.

I think that's harsh Thor - the FA is chock-full of the people you say but those same people have started the Kick it Out and Football vs Homophobia campaigns. These, along with the Respect, have a way to go but compared to Europe in general, and Russia in particular, then I think the FA is doing OK.

To me, English football is always, always singled out despite it making efforts (RUK gets an easy time 'cos trawling through English history for the bad bits is becoming a national pastime) but if anyone wants to see a lack of exclusivity and a distinct lack of 20th/21st Century representation then Google the England hockey teams (M&W) - a wall of white. Ditto the Rugby - check out the current squad. Then check out their coaches, national associations etc. No outcry there. Work to do but I suspect that footie is waaaaay ahead of most sports here and anywhere.

[crazyfists]

Completely agree with Airborn on this. Liverpool fans throw bottles at Man City's team coach and it's like they committed murder, at the same time if you go away to Roma don't walk to the ground cause you'll probably get stabbed if detected as English? Yeah ok then that sounds even handed. Then even the most pro Russian of supporters must admit they have a serious hooligan problem (not to just have a fight but to cause you real damage) added to Racism and they get the World Cup (mostly through brides in all probability) No wonder hardly any England fans are going with that added to England's flaccid product on show.

If an English club REGULARLY stabbed away fans they would be banned from Europe, anywhere else then it seems it's fine. I don't care if people say well it's not the real fans and maybe it's not in the main but if withdrawing that club stops people going and getting stabbed then it should be done.