Bums on seats

[ozleeds]

I didn't say it had anything to do with the tories its just them here serving the bullshlit.

Can you please visit the families that have lost member's to this virus than ask yourself is this really bs. Here in Australia, they have mostly contained it apart from the state I live in Victoria where they stuffed up and let the virus loose and has killed more people in a month than the rest of the time for the whole of Australia. We have idiots doing protests BS theorists at that whom in turn have let this virus take its course.
We had a Jewish church congregate when we had a curfew and half of them got the virus and who knows how many they infected.
Restrictions back in full force here and we have gone down from 400 new cases a day to 14 but idiots still break the law.
While you might say this is low well our population for such a huge country is only 25 mil so if you compare numbers we are up to the likes of us UK so on.
Like you' I don't have time for politics or politicians but in this case, what can they do if like you say let it loose I can guarantee those numbers you have suggested will be thrown out the window.
Sorry Alfi I highjack the thread I did say BAD I think lol.

[spaldy]

Can you please visit the families that have lost member's to this virus than ask yourself is this really bs. Here in Australia, they have mostly contained it apart from the state I live in Victoria where they stuffed up and let the virus loose and has killed more people in a month than the rest of the time for the whole of Australia. We have idiots doing protests BS theorists at that whom in turn have let this virus take its course.
We had a Jewish church congregate when we had a curfew and half of them got the virus and who knows how many they infected.
Restrictions back in full force here and we have gone down from 400 new cases a day to 14 but idiots still break the law.
While you might say this is low well our population for such a huge country is only 25 mil so if you compare numbers we are up to the likes of us UK so on.
Like you' I don't have time for politics or politicians but in this case, what can they do if like you say let it loose I can guarantee those numbers you have suggested will be thrown out the window.
Sorry Alfi I highjack the thread I did say BAD I think lol.

I don't need to "visit the famiiles". My wife and my daughters are nurses at a hospital. You know, the place they take you when you have the virus. They were on the front line and while none of them died they had countless patients and medical practicioners die around them die.

However, shutting down the world isn't going to make this go away. we will all be exposed to it sooner or later. You can thank our chinese friends for brewing this thing up in a lab and then hiding it when it got out or releasing it on us.

BTW, spare the nonsense of a "vaccine". Like waiting for the tooth fairy. There has never been a vaccine for a corona virus nor a rhino virus. They mutate too quickly. You be the first in line if you think it's actually a vaccine for this virus developed by the government to "make you safer".

we'll give up all of our liberties, leisure activities and freedom and hide in our houses while the chinese, swedes, Africa and South American countries get on with their lives.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Bad - the political world’s ability to understand statistics and science and then manage risk is frighteningly poor. The media in this country seems to have lost its ability to give objective factual commentary and rational analysis but just forged itself in propagating fear or bile. There is no real scrutiny of what is happening - even Tory backbenchers are complaining.

If you want to be a be even more depressed search up and read the articles on the new assay tests and the high prevalence of false positives - ie the tests are not reliable.

Not saying this isn’t serious and it needs to be dealt with but in a sensible, logical and stress tested way. Have they considered Sweden which has few rules and their figures are better or Germany which has some restrictions but more sensible ones and clearly explained and easier to understand - I suspect not as much as we would like.

The rule of 6 was not science based it was simply that was the size of gathering the police in England thought would make it easier for them to enforce - hence why the countries in the UK have different rules.

Some people and families will loose time and opportunities they will never get back. There should be more personal choice and freedom.

There have been lots of trial events in rugby and no significant issues. France which if you believe what the UK is saying has a much bigger problem is managing to have crowds in limited numbers too.

Whole thing has become a messy shambles where the rules and the reason for them is as about as clear as mud. Thought Johnson was to use his words ‘full of piffle and spouted twaddle’ tonight.

[spaldy]

Oz,

don't blame the aussies for teaching the chinese. There's always some country willing to sell them technology for 30 pieces of silver so they can continue their world domination execution plan.

that's the thing about autocratic regimes. They have few, if any, original thoughts or creativity. They spend it all on brainwashing their masses to be subservient and prostrate themselves to their rulers. However, they are very good at stealing ideas and objects from others.
Of course, we willingly help them by buying the cheap junk they produce just so we can save a little money. Pay no attention to the human suffering and enviromental damage they do to the world.

This will likely end up much worse than all of us missing a couple of football matches in person or 1/2 a million people dying. if we sit back and let them release this virus on the world, hide in our basements and do nothing about it then a whole lot worse will come down the pipeline. Autocrats never back down until someone makes them back down. I think we've gone through this excercise sometime in the middle of last century.

I think closing up the world, and football matches, sends a very bad message to the chinese just like the Sudentland did 80 years ago.

[leedsutdman]

Can you please visit the families that have lost member's to this virus than ask yourself is this really bs. Here in Australia, they have mostly contained it apart from the state I live in Victoria where they stuffed up and let the virus loose and has killed more people in a month than the rest of the time for the whole of Australia. We have idiots doing protests BS theorists at that whom in turn have let this virus take its course.
We had a Jewish church congregate when we had a curfew and half of them got the virus and who knows how many they infected.
Restrictions back in full force here and we have gone down from 400 new cases a day to 14 but idiots still break the law.
While you might say this is low well our population for such a huge country is only 25 mil so if you compare numbers we are up to the likes of us UK so on.
Like you' I don't have time for politics or politicians but in this case, what can they do if like you say let it loose I can guarantee those numbers you have suggested will be thrown out the window.
Sorry Alfi I highjack the thread I did say BAD I think lol.

I don't know anyone that's died of covid or anyone who knows of anyone that's died of covid, so I can't help you on that one.

[WTF11]

Can you please visit the families that have lost member's to this virus than ask yourself is this really bs. Here in Australia, they have mostly contained it apart from the state I live in Victoria where they stuffed up and let the virus loose and has killed more people in a month than the rest of the time for the whole of Australia. We have idiots doing protests BS theorists at that whom in turn have let this virus take its course.
We had a Jewish church congregate when we had a curfew and half of them got the virus and who knows how many they infected.
Restrictions back in full force here and we have gone down from 400 new cases a day to 14 but idiots still break the law.
While you might say this is low well our population for such a huge country is only 25 mil so if you compare numbers we are up to the likes of us UK so on.
Like you' I don't have time for politics or politicians but in this case, what can they do if like you say let it loose I can guarantee those numbers you have suggested will be thrown out the window.
Sorry Alfi I highjack the thread I did say BAD I think lol.

No-one who has lost a loved one (myself included), is seeking to minimise the devastation that loss can wreak on family and friends, but.........how much greater the devastation on ALL families, ALL friendships, ALL of society WILL BE when governments adopt policies based on quasi-science (e.g the social distances distance, different the world over irrespective of it being a reaction to a single virus), and a pandering to our dear friends in "da meedja, bruv"?

Rates if infection are, and always have been, irrelevant. Death rates are what we should be respectful of and should decide policy. For those aged under 20, as far as I know, only 1 death in the UK has been recorded as due to Covid alone. For those over 70 it's in the thousands. Say again, Sweden has it right, protect and if necessary isolate those truly at risk of serious illness or death, for the rest if us (and I'm 64 and count myself in "the rest"), we are the barrier between those at risk and the virus, but only if we have beaten the sh1t out if it first. I have, and I'm not special, ir brave, just a better shield against this sh1tty thing and my neighbours, family and friends than any mask will ever be.

Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed, and tens of thousands more WILL die because we have spineless, incompetent numb skulls in government and more importantly we, the people, have ceded the responsibility for making our own risk assessments to those same incompetents, shame on us.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

You tube some of the research from the likes of
John Hopkins in the USA, analysis from the economists or look up articles from respected economists like Tim Harford.

A lot of that would confirm that whilst Covid 19 is serious the response to it in many countries is not proportionate.

The response here seems disproportionate - who knows maybe if they stuff the economy before Brexit no one can blame Brexit for it - that seems to be as logical an explanation as anything.

Also sceptical about a successful vaccine but more confident of effective treatments many of which are already in use.

I don’t blame any of the younger generation who want to socialise - a lot feel disengaged and that this is further stuffing up their life prospects driven by a selfish older generation that will bequeath them debt and a bleak future. I blame the government for us shambolic messaging and mixed strategy and messaging.

[ozleeds]

All i know is the virus has us ozzies to thank as we trained those rotten chinese scientists how to make it. So spare i thought if i dont read scientific crap and only go by the effects it has had and is having on me and all the people that have died cause of it.
Yes people have died from ilnesses that have had and are figh**** but this virus has made sure of early death.
People have forgotten about the chinese that created this and are blaming local politicians and each other.

[Tichi1]

No-one who has lost a loved one (myself included), is seeking to minimise the devastation that loss can wreak on family and friends, but.........how much greater the devastation on ALL families, ALL friendships, ALL of society WILL BE when governments adopt policies based on quasi-science (e.g the social distances distance, different the world over irrespective of it being a reaction to a single virus), and a pandering to our dear friends in "da meedja, bruv"?

Rates if infection are, and always have been, irrelevant. Death rates are what we should be respectful of and should decide policy. For those aged under 20, as far as I know, only 1 death in the UK has been recorded as due to Covid alone. For those over 70 it's in the thousands. Say again, Sweden has it right, protect and if necessary isolate those truly at risk of serious illness or death, for the rest if us (and I'm 64 and count myself in "the rest"), we are the barrier between those at risk and the virus, but only if we have beaten the sh1t out if it first. I have, and I'm not special, ir brave, just a better shield against this sh1tty thing and my neighbours, family and friends than any mask will ever be.

Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed, and tens of thousands more WILL die because we have spineless, incompetent numb skulls in government and more importantly we, the people, have ceded the responsibility for making our own risk assessments to those same incompetents, shame on us.

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments, where do you get the "Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed" from? I cannot find any stats backing that up anywhere?
Exageration doesn't help make your point.

[WTF11]

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments, where do you get the "Tens of thousands have already died in the UK alone because cancer diagnosis and treatments have been delayed, surgery for life-threatening but ultimately survivable conditions postponed" from? I cannot find any stats backing that up anywhere?
Exageration doesn't help make your point.

I'm not exaggerrating.

As an example, please refer to:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...388-0/fulltext

This study relates ONLY to FOUR cancer types, and reaches a conclusion that over 3,500 "excess deaths" resulting from them are down to the results of NHS responses to the pandemic, i.e the suspension of cancer SCREENING and the impact that has had on diagnosis etc. (Been there, done it, got the f00king baseball cap etc etc. I know what delays do to aggressive cancer survival prospects).

The study doesn't take into account those who simply haven't presented themselves for screening because of fears over catching Covid in hospital, or the thought that "It's nothing and the hospitals are so busy with Covid patients". If we take daily death rates as crude indicator of how many people SHOULD be presenting themselves. That daily death rate is around 450/day or 81,000 since lockdown began. If only 10% might have been prevented by the person at least presenting themselves, then we're into 5-figure territory, and none of the figures I quote are "worst case" far from it.


Another source;

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...ry-covid-.html

This makes specific reference to the number of "excess deaths" from delayed surgery (or surgery required because other interventions such as chemotherapy, were delayed past the point where they would have been effective), and to the net effect of "life years" lost per cancer patient where surgery is delayed, vs the life years lost when a Covid patient succumbs to the disease.

Any way you look at it, the current policies, and the "headless chicken" government that develops/mandates them, are worse than the disease they are supposed to be addressing.

And another;

https://www.hdruk.ac.uk/news/the-big...19-its-cancer/