Trade or University

[mickd1961]

Hear, hear!

You’re missing my point entirely, both of you are.

Tomas, I clearly stated that for the types of professions you highlighted that a top education is very much required.

Al.....you constantly bang on about this with the same reply time after time in defence of what you seem to think ( wrongly )is a dig at your own kids.

Read my post again.

Too many are going to university and wasting 4-5 years of their lives doing pointless degrees, especially in photography and lightweight subjects.

They then come out without a plan and with huge debt, for many university was the wrong choice.

Take me for example, I was reasonably bright at school but hated being in education, another two years at sixth form followed by 4-5 years at university would’ve seen me being 24 and unprepared for the real world.

Great if you’ve got a really good brain and a real plan for what you want to do but if you haven’t it’s pointless.

“Falling back on a good education” hasn’t helped my masters degree nephew who now tries to survive on Instagram videos whilst living in Mexico at 33 on meagre money with no career despite being fluent in five languages.

Well played to your kids who have had a plan,your daughter in particular who seems to be really driven.

Too many who go to university are not, for every one of your daughter’s type there are many more who achieve very little despite that education.

[WBA1955]

You can sit in a classroom all day and learn theory but only practice makes experience.
That's how we seperate the Casanova's from the tossers.

[BaggieSingh]

For me it’s all about application and experience
Some people don’t have the experience from a young age to suit academic learning, by that I mean they haven’t been trained to pass exams
After all exams are a way of measuring certain things that some people will be able to master and some not, but I do think it’s the best way to measure this but by no means perfect

I know plenty of people who are not good at exams, but are very intelligent

I agree with Mick on the 4 year wasters as since Blair made the changes I know far far more kids doing uni who would previously had no hope, and pissing it up the wall, but like Al n Thomas have said if you go to uni or any school of learning, be it YTS etc, and you apply yourself to do well and want to excel you normally will, problem is I see a lot of losers at unis who have no intention to do anything but get pissed, shag around and get a degree, not actually learn

I also think that brains are “wired” differently, don’t want to open the nature/nurture debate but whatever it is some peoples mind work differently
For example in all of the roles I’ve had I work really hard and am able to see the bigger picture the future and what is read for now and prioritise for tomorrow
But I’ve always needed people to work with to give me the detail, as good as I think i am it’s not my day job so I have ro ask the right questions and observe certain things and listen to the subject matter experts

I don’t think they could do my job and I couldn’t do there’s, but together we smash it, but I’m always respectful, share praise and definitely try not to look down on others, but build strong teams where everyone can add value

Im a regular Mother Theresa

Also Mick get shot if they start like that, I’ve got rid of 2 x PMs on £500 a day who were useless the last month, gotta be ruthless

[mickd1961]

For me it’s all about application and experience
Some people don’t have the experience from a young age to suit academic learning, by that I mean they haven’t been trained to pass exams
After all exams are a way of measuring certain things that some people will be able to master and some not, but I do think it’s the best way to measure this but by no means perfect

I know plenty of people who are not good at exams, but are very intelligent

I agree with Mick on the 4 year wasters as since Blair made the changes I know far far more kids doing uni who would previously had no hope, and pissing it up the wall, but like Al n Thomas have said if you go to uni or any school of learning, be it YTS etc, and you apply yourself to do well and want to excel you normally will, problem is I see a lot of losers at unis who have no intention to do anything but get pissed, shag around and get a degree, not actually learn

I also think that brains are “wired” differently, don’t want to open the nature/nurture debate but whatever it is some peoples mind work differently
For example in all of the roles I’ve had I work really hard and am able to see the bigger picture the future and what is read for now and prioritise for tomorrow
But I’ve always needed people to work with to give me the detail, as good as I think i am it’s not my day job so I have ro ask the right questions and observe certain things and listen to the subject matter experts

I don’t think they could do my job and I couldn’t do there’s, but together we smash it, but I’m always respectful, share praise and definitely try not to look down on others, but build strong teams where everyone can add value

Im a regular Mother Theresa

Also Mick get shot if they start like that, I’ve got rid of 2 x PMs on £500 a day who were useless the last month, gotta be ruthless

I agree wholeheartedly with your post BS.

I'm in the slight predicament of having given this job to a lad who I know personally.

He's approaching 25 and had never had a job since leaving university and I wanted to give him a leg up, get him into proper work and thus make him more employable in the field in which he'd got his Masters if my place didn't suit him.

In a major surprise to myself he's proved himself to be low on work ethic and act like he's doing us a favour by turning up each day.

I'm not prepared to give up on him yet though, he's going to get "old school" treatment like I got when I started work in 78 off all the old ex World War 2 veterans who were my bosses at the time, they didn't *****foot around with my generation back then and it stood us in good stead.

He'll either shape up or he won't.........I've given him his first break, I can't put a work ethic and the right attitude to others into him though, that has to come from within.

[baggieal]

You’re missing my point entirely, both of you are.

Tomas, I clearly stated that for the types of professions you highlighted that a top education is very much required.

Al.....you constantly bang on about this with the same reply time after time in defence of what you seem to think ( wrongly )is a dig at your own kids.

Read my post again.

Too many are going to university and wasting 4-5 years of their lives doing pointless degrees, especially in photography and lightweight subjects.

They then come out without a plan and with huge debt, for many university was the wrong choice.

Take me for example, I was reasonably bright at school but hated being in education, another two years at sixth form followed by 4-5 years at university would’ve seen me being 24 and unprepared for the real world.

Great if you’ve got a really good brain and a real plan for what you want to do but if you haven’t it’s pointless.

“Falling back on a good education” hasn’t helped my masters degree nephew who now tries to survive on Instagram videos whilst living in Mexico at 33 on meagre money with no career despite being fluent in five languages.

Well played to your kids who have had a plan,your daughter in particular who seems to be really driven.

Too many who go to university are not, for every one of your daughter’s type there are many more who achieve very little despite that education.

Not missing any point Mick! Might be better for someone to answer the post on whose kids have experienced university or invested in education!! At all the top universities there’s no courses like photography which you mention so perhaps you are getting confused with the old third rate Poly’s.

To obtain a good degree in a very academic course is hard slog believe me! I know my own kids and their mates were revising day and night!

University brings other benefits too! My daughter would not have got on the Disney Florida programme in the Summer for two years ( only recruit university students ) or headhunted via linked in by Man Utd. Two of the most powerful brands around certainly opens doors on a CV.

Investment in education for me is an excellent move and better than a deposit for a house as it’s for life if the child gets a good career.

Labour even ruined the old grammar school system. Take a grammar school in my area - bitter parents whose kids can’t get in want the selection system scrapped as their view is it weakens other schools in the area. Yes it does but why should bright kids be held back by kids who don’t want to learn or who are thick. You don’t have useless kids who can’t play football very well in football academies so no different.

Nothing wrong with trades but work not guaranteed - no company pension - no company share scheme - no bonus scheme - no paid holidays - no illness cover and I could go on. A good career with a company should propel someone up the ladder.

I certainly would be nervous without decent qualifications in 2022.

I do agree though university is not everything but a family member has just got into the RAF - understandably he had to have fantastic qualifications to even get on the first interview out of four! Really tough but understandably!

My warehouse staff pack boxes and anyone can do this but agree work ethic and common sense are the key ingredients so horses for courses!

[baggieal]

Also for clarity a student is not in immediate debt when taking out a student loan as regardless whether they get into a good career which most do - they have academically bettered themselves and only start paying back their loan from a starting salary of around 27K. Usually on a 27K starting salary they won’t be working in a shop or factory so no real hardship, Some loans won’t start or be written off prior to the end of the plan.

So for any let’s say talented Ukrainians who want to go into medicine a degree would be brilliant and will please the depleted NHS who are desperate!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I'm totally with Mick on this. Where is he saying Uni is a bad thing? The most relevant line is horses for courses. My eldest is the most naturally the brainiest of the 3 but didn't go to Uni. His 'trade' is his mouth. He is such a convincing speaker. We talk football and often I start off with an opinion and after listening to him I come round to his way of thinking. Coals to Newcastle.

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

My mates daughter who was never 'bright' started but never finished 3 different uni courses fashion related. At 25 she married, has 2 kids and is a smashing mum. Now that is perhaps the most important job of all. One that is imo sadly neglected now.

[westcountryvillain]

Every population needs trades people, professionals and academics, a job for life in today's world is now a rarity so folk need so acquire skills they can use across varying workplaces.

It's very much a case of to each their own, education isn't for everyone but as parents it's for us to guide our kids so they're able to make informed decisions and, inevitably, their own mistakes.

There is however no excuse for not working hard at whatever it is you've decided to do, and it needs tough love for the lazy types. I'm all for people going off to university to gain a qualification, it's also a great life but there's little point in a degree if you can't use it for the next step.

[Yarmbaggie]

Every child/adult is different and what is right for one is not right for another.

To my mind the ‘education, education, education’ mantra caused so many problems, particularly for working class and middle class families. It became the talk around most dinner party tables/friends gathering, about which university your child/grandchild was going t. It became a badge of shame for families and especially children when they didn’t go to university either by choice or because they didn’t get the grades.

In my opinion far too many young adults leaving school for university should not be there because they either don’t want to be there or they are not suited to the university life. I know several sad cases of children of friends who dropped out of uni and didn’t even tell their parents for many months because of what they saw as their ‘shame’. Interestingly one of them was from a Sikh family and as the eldest son he lived a secret life for over 6 months in the university city because he couldn’t tell his family. This affects people from all backgrounds.

Education isn’t everything and neither should it be. I would rather have family who are happy and comfortable with what they do in life rather than ones who have ‘mega money jobs’ work all hours god sends and are stressed to the hilt. I know plenty of the latter, including some within the family, and I know which ones have the better lives, and usually it isn’t those with the biggest houses and the biggest incomes.