Victoria Derbyshire.

[Psaw]

True wealth is being debt free. Becoming debt free at the beginning requires some discipline, if you get into debt at all. The things you pay for on tick suddenly have no extra price tag.

Didnt your parents ever tell you to save up for things and not buy today pay tomorrow or whatever the saying was?

Mine did. I got into debt once, and paid it back in half the time, and have been debt free ever since. I have paid back three mortgages and helped another, and in that time i could afford whatever, booze, nights out, and cigars, its when i smoked. Cars. When i didnt have the money i didnt do that.

Oh, i always did.

Being debt free is the basis of wealth whatever your income is. Now i have more money than i know what to do with. My state pension starts next march which is 800 quid, plus my rental income, my other pension, and the ownership of two houses.

One more move is in us, apart from that buying stuff is just wasting money, if it doesnt feed you, keep you warm and dry, its useless.

I could get a smaller car, it will do the job just as well. The stress of worrying about money is gone. If you scale that up to the nations finances, we could be the richest country in the world, but its been spent on crap, and wanting caviar before we can afford it.

Thats what conservatism is about. I know you will disagree, but so what. What it does show that people are built differently. I am a jeep, i can negotiate any terrain, i see you more as a mid range hatchback. The difference is that when the roads have holes, i can still drive.

[griff]

Short-sighted thinking Frank. If this country had remained debt free we’d be speaking French or German by now. Our borrowing began as a way of funding wars such as those against Napoleon and Germany in the last century. Sometimes you have to protect yourself against aggressors Frank, or would you rather we’d just not bothered?

[Psaw]

Thats different.

[griff]

Of course it is, but if we’d waited until we’d saved the money Hitler would have ensconced himself in Downing Street and London’s large Jewish population would have been off to the camps, So we took on a bit more debt and we’ve been doing it ever since, though the enemies have changed to stuff like a global financial meltdown and a pandemic. There are very few countries without debt Frank.