Russian Offensive Begins

[Dubbag]

Bit like saying an innocent immigrant girl from Albania gets raped and murdered in London but some say - she’s not one of our own or Albania is not close to us!

An innocent Ukrainian who is tortured, raped and executed is no different to the same of any girl in this country.

Putin must be stopped otherwise it’s the green light for every other nutter in the world to do the same!

Decent analogy Al.
I understand your position Matt but there is no fence sitting on this one. Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Kosovo et al were mostly dictator led who had no value on life.
But Putin has made big miscalculations and even China is no longer happy with its direction. The upside is that they may now be thinking twice about any expansion of its own interests in that region.
Interesting times indeed...

[kettering_baggie]

Was our illegal war in Iraq anything to do with China/Japan/Brazil/India? Morally they must have found it wrong in the same way we do with Ukraine.

I get that we should be supporting Ukraine but they aren’t allies of our people like Ireland are, USA or others in Western Europe. I’ve never met a Ukrainian and will probably never meet one. We probably wouldn’t have shared values given that they are on the ‘other side’ of Europe.

Point being, we should provide weapons, cash and aid but we shouldn’t join this like others are suggesting.

Putin wants a legacy but he’s not thick. If he goes into NATO territory, it’s a war including nuclear weapons. That won’t happen. Not on a month of Sundays. His exhausted army won’t be able to go beyond Ukraine even if he was stupid enough to order it.

I have met a Ukrainian family; last Summer the ukulele band that I play in did three sessions of busking in local towns to raise money for Ukrainian refugees and at at one of them, a family came up to us, Ukrainians, they couldn’t believe that we were doing this for their people. They sang one of their folk songs for us. They were human beings just like us, except that unlike us here in Britain, they were being subjected to brutal assaults and bombings. Dictators like Putin do not give up and go home, they have to be stopped, if Ukraine doesn’t do it someone else will have to.

[Barrera]

We should be giving Ukraine whatever weapons they want to protect themselves. Aircraft, long range weapons, tanks, rockets, ammunition. The Ukrainians are fighting for their lives and their future - which is why they are so determined to resist Putin. Russia is a failed state … only has one thing going for it … massive energy reserves. The Ukrainians know this and the last thing they want is to have Russia’s way of life imposed on them.

We have to call Putin’s bluff on nuclear weapons …. Otherwise there will be no end to this. And other maniac dictators around the world will see if they get a nuclear weapon they can do anything …

[kettering_baggie]

The situation on aircraft is a difficult one, I recently read an article why the West is reluctant to supply modern jets to Ukraine. The type of war that NATO has set itself up to fight, if required, is one where airpower is at the forefront of the strategy; this is not the case in Ukraine, which is a land based conflict based on artillery and tanks. The Russians have a very extensive anti-aircraft missile capability and before western jets could be deployed that anti aircraft capability would have to be considerably diminished. Also, the number of planes required in order to have any significant impact is likely to be too great for most countries to agree to, it would diminish their own airforce to too great a degree. There were a number of other strategical issues as well, in short, NATO, and the US in particular, do not wish to take the risk of losing too many aircraft by pushing them into a theatre of war for which they were not designed and the fact that the Ukrainians do not currently have the capability of destroying the Russian air defence systems.

[WBA1955]

The World at War series was some of the finest television ever made. The opening sequence relating the horrific events at Ouradour sur Glane bring home how close the consequences of war are to each of us.
The portrayal of the Nazis rise to power is chilling as that could easily happen today given the people's dissatisfaction with those currently in office.

I've watched it a few times. My grandfather was at Gold Beach 1944.

I have the complete set on DVD, along with the complete set of the Great War. Millions of people killed and maimed, women egging the men to go and teach them a lesson, make it the war to end war.
A hundred years down the line we are back to square one listening to the same old bollux.

[Dubbag]

Are the women still egging the men on today?
You could go back three thousands years in history and still end up in square one today.
A few main differences....science has made killing large quantities of humans much easier then three thousands years ago.
Humans still mostly live in ignorance or surround themselves with ignorance, thus making it much easier to start wars for the masses.
Elites (in any country) know how to start wars and make money.

[baggieal]

I have the complete set on DVD, along with the complete set of the Great War. Millions of people killed and maimed, women egging the men to go and teach them a lesson, make it the war to end war.
A hundred years down the line we are back to square one listening to the same old bollux.

Thought it was 2023 Des!!!! For me if a terrorist bomb ripped through an old peoples home in this country ripping the folk to shreds it would be no different from a Russian bomb dropping on an Ukrainian school!