controversial thread so beware

[GBruno]

I’ve just watched that World Cup kiss. It’s been blown out of all proportion.

This is what happens when you treat individuals as part of a collective. In the eyes of many, this is not an individual man pecking a woman on the lips, it’s thousands of years of patriarchy oppressing women.

It’s mental.

His apology seems adequate in this case. It was a decent apology as apologies go. But now there is a witch hunt. He’s on about suing the player.

I was planning to watch more women’s football but after the Lionesses have tweeted about patriarchies all this crap. I’m going to leave it well alone. Good luck to them.

Must be hard being paid for kicking a football around. The entitlement is staggering.

On Stavely kissing players, there would absolutely be double standards.

[Zippity]

I’ve just watched that World Cup kiss. It’s been blown out of all proportion.

This is what happens when you treat individuals as part of a collective.

.

Ok...so what about her individual right not to have some bloke decide it's ok to kiss her full on the lips? And then have another load of blokes decide that's ok?

I'm sorry-and I know you hate the word but it's entirely appropriate here-but that is the patriarchy in full swing right there.

[Sclox]

The Spanish lad was wrong and should apologise but it doesn't deserve resignation. Its not like he grabbed her t***.

[GBruno]

Ok...so what about her individual right not to have some bloke decide it's ok to kiss her full on the lips? And then have another load of blokes decide that's ok?

I'm sorry-and I know you hate the word but it's entirely appropriate here-but that is the patriarchy in full swing right there.

I am not sure that gender has to do with anything here. I am not sure how the argument is somehow different if a woman had kissed her on the lips.

What's the problem with a group of men making decision on things? Do you think only female judges and juries should decide on cases including females?

Patriarchy as a hazy concept is just not relevant here. Was this guy acting as part of some mythical patriarchal group of men or was he acting as an individual? He seemed genuinely happy and caught up in the moment. I am not sure if there is a cultutral aspect to all of this either. Aren't Eurpoeans always kissing each other? Maybe not in Spain? I don't know.

I am the biggest advocate of individual rights. He should not have kissed her on the lips, however he is now saying she consented to it. Apparently they were friends according to some sources. Only when you lump this action together with theoretical concepts like patriarchy, does it have any significance at all. I think we are just too quick to go there. It's similar with accusations of racism. I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Doesn't this guy have the right to be treated as an individual? He certainly isn't in this case.

He's apologised, he seemed genuine enough. Can't we give him the benefit of the doubt? What does destroying his career achieve? You can bet he's learnt his lesson.

It will get to a point where you cannot congratulate a woman or give a medal without fear of getting too close. Is hugging alright?

Now we are talking about a man when we should be talking about the women's achievements.

[toptoon]

My take. Spanish bloke wrong and he is gone, no question (although if you see video of the kiss compared to the still photo there’s a big difference). But , as said, he can’t be doing that. Tanya’s story is frightening and my first thought, like nufcian, was to sue the f*ck out of the company. It’s like my ‘woman in the plane’ episode, his mate wasn’t being ***ist, just saying that a person wouldn’t be up to a certain job - it’s complete normal footie chatter. If I say Hermoso’s sh*te and wouldn’t even get a game for Southend, will I get jailed?
As said above it's the victimization card. People need to be very clear between ‘he’s criticizing me AND I’m a woman/black/etc.’ and he’s criticizing me BECAUSE I’m a woman/black/etc.
Double standards? Seemed OK for a Black Lives Matter demonstrator at a London gathering call a black policeman working there as a ‘pet nigger’. You couldn’t make it up.

[TANYA_]

My take. Spanish bloke wrong and he is gone, no question (although if you see video of the kiss compared to the still photo there’s a big difference). But , as said, he can’t be doing that. Tanya’s story is frightening and my first thought, like nufcian, was to sue the f*ck out of the company. It’s like my ‘woman in the plane’ episode, his mate wasn’t being ***ist, just saying that a person wouldn’t be up to a certain job - it’s complete normal footie chatter. If I say Hermoso’s sh*te and wouldn’t even get a game for Southend, will I get jailed?
As said above it's the victimization card. People need to be very clear between ‘he’s criticizing me AND I’m a woman/black/etc.’ and he’s criticizing me BECAUSE I’m a woman/black/etc.
Double standards? Seemed OK for a Black Lives Matter demonstrator at a London gathering call a black policeman working there as a ‘pet nigger’. You couldn’t make it up.

When you watch this video, it puts things into a realistic perspective.

A woman horse owner and the winning Jockey, oh the outrage

https://twitter.com/i/status/1695116548711596330

[toptoon]

When you watch this video, it puts things into a realistic perspective.

A woman horse owner and the winning Jockey, oh the outrage

https://twitter.com/i/status/1695116548711596330

Yes mate but many minorities want to ‘have their cake and eat it’. They can do whatever they want while; white, straight, males, cannot. This is why I say everyone should be treated the same, no matter who they are.

[tinostongue]

sorry for the rant last night guys, i was really pissed off and still am.

A close friend and colleague of mine has been sacked for having a view on Sarina Wiegman.

She was linked with taking over from Southgate last week

My friend simply said she would be out of her depth managing the men's team because its a completely different level and skillset.

Wiegman is accustom to working with players of a certain standard and motivating that group, and it was his opinion
6
that the same methods would be no good managing the men because they are multi millionaires and much higher quality.

A female colleague reported him saying she was offended by his ***ist remarks and he was insensitive to the gay community.
I think I would be going for wrongful dismissal if I was him/ her
HE DIDNT SAY ANYTHING REMOTELY OFFENSIVE! i could honestly fo0king scream!

The HR department shlt themselves in my opinion.

4 of us that heard the conversation were dragged in by HR.

He was doomed from the start, they didn't want any context or background on what happened, HR simply asked blunt questions

"did he say this?" "did he say that"?

He has lost his job of 14 years, he's just bought a house and has 2 small kids at home.

The world has gone crazy. I went for a few drinks with him last night, he is in a proper state.

Then i got home last night and saw all that Spanish shlt and all the accusations spiralling out of control.

and im just like wow, this has gone too far.

Wasnt that long ago, another colleague was sacked for saying someone was a c*nt

corporate culture is genuinely having to walk on egg shells and keeping your mouth shut if you're white, straight and male


anyhow, i hope we get a win tomorrow

I think I would be going for wrongful dismissal if I was him. That is absolutely no reason to loose his job, was the person who sacked him a woman by any chance?

[GBruno]

When you watch this video, it puts things into a realistic perspective.

A woman horse owner and the winning Jockey, oh the outrage

https://twitter.com/i/status/1695116548711596330

Kisses on the lips are only a violation of individual rights if men are the culprit.

Fun fact, individual rights apply to everyone, otherwise it's not a right.

Like I said before. This kissing thing has naff all to do with history or patriarchy or anything like that. That's such a dangerous and problematic way of looking at individual events. It's one guy accidentally making a woman feel "uncomfortable". He said sorry. he won't be doing it again. Move on.

[ex_pat_magpie]

First off, genuinely sorry you've had a shit day, man. I hope tomorrow is better.

The problem is, for straight, white men-and I'm in that group, too-we've had it our own way for too long.

What we're seeing in society at the minute is the pushing back of oppressed minorities-and rightly so, in my opinion.

Granted, it's gone too far in a lot of aspects but I think that's inevitable as other groups fight for the recognition they've been denied for, well, centuries.

Women, gay people, minorities of all hues have had it shit for so long that, now they've started to 'fight back', as it were, the folk getting it in the neck are the ones who've least been affected by centuries of oppression, namely, straight white blokes.

In my humble opinion, we're not facing anything like the oppression the afforementioned groups have faced and, for the time being, we have to suck it up until a balance and a compromise is reached.

i think, in terms of human rights for everyone, we're heading in the right direction and we'll achieve balance before too long. Until then, if we have to face a bit of discomfort compared to centuries of discrinination that the other groups have suffered-especially women-, I think that's a small price to pay.

I do get that my post won't garner a huge amount of sympathy on here-and that's ok. I'm certainly not having a go at you, Tanya...just my thoughts.


This post was brought to you by Lakes Distillery Elderflower Gin Liqueur.

I think Zip has it just about right in the above post and it's a case of live and let live.

But there is a case of these minority groups making too much of a situation and actually purposely steering themselves into a victim position.

I'm just recalling a case recently down here in Surrey which made the headlines stupidly because it concerned a black woman. Had it been a white fellow I doubt it wouldn't have even been reported never mine being headlined.

This woman was asked to show her pass card or ticket on a bus in Croydon, I presume a routine check, when she refused the inspector called the police, who turned up, took care of her two kids and took her to the police station for examination where it transpired that she had a ticket or pass card, but just refused to show it.

Now isn't this a case of creating trouble by just being pure bolshie as she had initially called the race card, forgetting that the transport inspector was also coloured, as well as being a bad example to her kids, who must have been frightened out of their lives, merely just to make an unnecessary issue.