Reply With QuoteAnimal.
Can you tell us what James Cryne is looking for in a player ?
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The Reading left back yesterday really impressed me , Clinton Mola .
Now he is playing in a really poor team , he didn't get forward too much but his passing from the back was really bright and I thought in team that wanted to pass and even play it out from the back this kid would be a good fit .
So I looked at his career , 22 years old , came to Reading on a free from Blackburn .
But here's the reason why he can pass out from the back , he was in Chelsea's academy , from probably 10 years old until he was 18 that's how he was coached and then he went to Stuggart in Germany where again that's how they are coached .
Played at all the England levels up to the under 21's too .
This kid may not amount to much but it isn't because he can't play or even defend , he's playing in a poor team , they are shipping goals left , right and centre , the confidence then goes , the manager gets the sack and Reading are in league two and before you know it his career has almost gone .
Someone sees his strengths , the way the team plays suits him , they win games regularly and all of a sudden his career is going in a different direction .
That's what recruitment people are meant to spot , the specific skills the HC is looking for to play the way he wants .
He would never be on our radar because the information James Cryne looks at would tell him something completely different .
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Animal.
Can you tell us what James Cryne is looking for in a player ?
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My problem here Animal is that it’s not like we haven’t got an example of what happens when we have changed from our own style to a possession style..Originally Posted by animallittle3
The changes FORCED on Schopp and Asbaghi showed us supporters what happens when we try to compete with Championship teams playing possession based football.
Currently we are even failing to match 1st Division teams when we play like that.
Now Conway isn’t part of the decision making we can assume Collins isn’t being forced to play a style similar to Schopp and Asbaghi.
IMO - the directors should look at this season as a false start.
That’s if they arnt already doing that.
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This could be a long post because it's a subject I've found fascinating for years , even as a much younger man , bear with me .
As I understand it , Cryne analyses player performance data , this data is updated after every game the player plays in .
Don't get me wrong that's an incredible wealth of information to have and obviously is a very useful tool .
My point about this method has never been that it hasn't got its place my criticism of it is that as a club we see it as the be and end all .
We know this because all the old scouts were let go or at least 90% of them were .
My other problem with it is that the data given out is simply that , just data , there is no substitute what so ever for watching footballers play games of football in real time and over an acceptable length of time too .
One of the greatest assets a scout at a professional football club can have is instinct , it can't be taught , it also requires out of box thinking , such as seeing that a kid whose a striker would make a better central midfield player , Steve Agnew or a centre back would make a better striker , Dion Dublin , Chris Sutton .
The data never told us that Matty Pearson was a very good central defender because we bought him as a full back .
The data didn't tell us Ryan Hedges was way more affective on the right than he was on the left .
Or that Connor Chaplin is a way better player in the role he plays at Ipswich than the one he played here .
How come Victor scores goals regularly for Burton and Bolton but never looked liked scoring for us ?
How come we've had two opportunities , we've had the data , to not sign Amari Bell when he was available for absolutely nowt and is currently part of the Luton Town success story , he was 27 years old when they signed him is the clue or even Tom Lockyer who Luton signed on a free from Charlton Athletic , wait for it he was 27 years old at the time , both these lads are holding their own in the Premier League .
So the answer to your question is YN , we should be doing way much better than we do as a club who is always in the market for low cost players with talent that nobody else can see .
We don't do anything like enough of the work that's needed , we put up barriers with age restrictions and we haven't enough scouts to do the job properly because we don't think we need them .
The recruitment at this club is fundamentally flawed because of the time it takes to get our recruits up to speed and as a consequence we always take the step back .
My view in this post tells you it doesn't have to be this way and that's working within the same budget restrictions .
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Where you go spectacularly wrong on these pages is that you assume for the greater part that the people who buy football club's , who work in football club's or in many respects even play the game are the people you think they are .
This industry contains more wrong uns and more idiots than in any other walk of life you can find , it's a money orientated , ego led industry containing just about the most selfish people it's possible to come across .
If you ever read only one football book in your life then read Simon Jordan's book on his time as owner of Crystal Palace , this is an industry that took one of the most street wise and a successful self made man to the cleaners , a kid so savvy he waited in New York restaurants and was a multi millionaire two years later on the back of start up money less than a month's wage .
If you assume that the people who make the decisions here from chairman , CEO to HC are only making them for the benefit of themselves and not for the greater good of the club or the supporters you'd not go far wrong .
First of all there's nothing that Collins did in Florida in any shape or form relatable to the job at league one Barnsley , you couldn't get two jobs more far apart on just about any conceivable level .
He probably had the success in Florida playing passing football , that's what he's banking on to be successful here because that's how it went in Florida .
It's as simple as that YN , it just so happens that I believe if he pulls it off and we get promoted whenever it's probably a better way to do it than playing a results based percentage way in league one only to find out a level higher that you are miles off the standard required .
Duff was very good at the results based percentage stuff but I can almost guarantee if we'd gone up last season he'd have struggled to make that work in the championship .
Val was the results based percentage man too , had he done the impossible I dread to think what would have happened to us in the top league , less than 10 points probably .
Best example I can give you of ourselves having it bang on when promoted from league one to the championship was Hecky's team , not a problem , adapted straight away because they could pass the bloody ball very well .
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Excellent posts Animal.
Genuinely well received.
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Should have no input for me , what is the point of appointing a director of football & then let an amateur pick the tools to do the job , the Dof should liaise with the HC to decide what positions of incoming players they require to cover & then form a list to which the HC comes with his selection of players with a first choice , second choice & third choice for each spot bearing in mind it is not easy to get deals over the line so the HC has to have options should his first choices prove to be impossible to get over the line . Mr Cryne should use his business expertise to help the club & leave the football side of things to professionals .
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I was a regular at the old Central League reserve games in the 80's and 90's and during those days with the crowds nearly always sparse unless we were playing Manchester United or Liverpool reserves you'd see the West Stand full of scouts from all over the place .
You knew they were scouting or looking at somebody because a lot of them were out of work manager's keeping themselves in the game and earning a few quid scouting .
You'd see ex Huddersfield Town boss Mick Buxton at nearly every game , George Kerr , John McGovern , Wilf McGuiness , Colin Addison and once Tommy Docherty .
They'd probably not be looking at our second string but it was a good league back then with clubs like Aston Villa , Coventry , City , United , Everton , Liverpool , Newcastle , Sunderland , Leeds , Wednesday as well as ourselves and Rotherham etc etc .
They'd be some good second string talent to look at , a young John Hendrie at Coventry , Gary Bannister also at Coventry , Paul Warhurst , Earl Barrett at City , there was this young skinny black kid one night playing Villa who was the best and most skilful player I'd ever seen called Mark Walters who was just incredible .
The point I'm making and I've never had an answer to this but why did that system ever need to be changed or condemned to the dustbin of history ?
I've never understood why .
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Good post Animal , you & I might have been stood side by side as I would also attend these matches if it they fell on the right shift for me and there would always be the whispers along the terrace as to who were the players who were attracting the scouts etc etc & the standard of these matches were usually pretty good because in those days first team players would use these fixtures as part of their returning to fitness plans if they had been out injured & we regularly played reserves from the top flight & would see quality players you would not normally get to watch . Getting back to the original point our new DOF should be watching potential targets & at least have a list of contacts who he trusts to watch & report back to him , it has to be time to rip up the spreadsheet & get back to football professionals using their expertise & knowledge to bring a squad of players together capable of doing the job & keeping their fingers on the pulse by constantly monitoring potential targets .
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Some good points - some I agree with.
But those I don’t.
Only James Cryne knows how the algorithm thing works.
No one else - not even the CEO.
I think people misjudge the new ownership or indeed any owners of football clubs.
These are people that are not like most of the population in Barnsley.
They have made it - they don’t need to scramble about for every dime to make ends meet.
They look to contribute to society by either giving something back or in the case of football club owners jumping onboard something they have an interest in.
As a lot of people struggle all their lives I understand that it’s difficult for some to get their heads around - that they are not in it for themselves.
Some people on here like myself may contribute by doing charity type work - and not earned a penny from it.
That’s what football club owners do - but on a much bigger scale.
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