Andrew Nestor Game Model

[On Balance]

I don't see it that way. They are allowed to manage, but they have to manage within the model.

So if we play a particular formation, any manager who we speak with will need to be on board with that. We also want a manager who is going to give our younger players exposure, because the more they play and perform - the more resale value we have.

At times recently, we've dropped Fellows and played Diangana or Swift. Why? They are leaving for nothing at the end of the season. Its not like they really added anything anyway, but Fellows could have got another 2, 3, 4 assists and his stats look even more appealing to a buyer. If we sell Fellows for 15m, it gives us an option to reinvest that money on other players.

Had Wildsmith not been so mistake prone, he would likely still be in goal instead of Griffiths...again, which one has more resale value? This is common sense, and we need a manager on board with it. Maybe we could put up with it if we were winning games, but we haven't been. So TM failed that test miserably.

I also notice he made similar comments when he left Sunderland, who wanted a manager to develop younger players. They have the same idea as us. The club has to be on the same page as the manager, and we clearly weren't with TM.

Time will tell. Next season with the new person on board will provide an indication if this formula works. If we find ourselves in a similar situation then it may need a rethink.

The game itself is simple, this at least to me appears complicated and restrictive.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Never mind all the jargon of this method or that method, to my mind it is simple. We need a young, energetic, ambitious manager who is prepared to give youngsters a go, allied with a couple of old heads to lead by example. He also needs to play on the front food and give the fans something to get off their seats for. Simples!

[baggiematt]

This notion of one manager being responsible for a set of players, style of play and overall performance of the football club, is outdated. Sides like United show why this doesn?t work.

The manager role becomes more autonomous the longer they are in post and the more successful they are in the management team. Why would a failing manager have total autonomy?

The real need of the club is miles bigger than the manager.

[Omegstrat6]

Fings ain't what they used to be!

Like so many things, football has moved on a great deal from the more "simple" game most of us grew up with. No more fags and a few pints the night before games or Georgie Best turning up late for training and having to work his tits off to get rid of the alcohol and hangover. No more "just go out and enjoy yourselves" tactics. No more flamboyant individual players. Everything is analysed and micro-managed whether fitness levels of individuals, tactics or the opposition. The wealth of data that increased technology has allowed all feeds into the Game Model. It's aim is simply to figure out the plan with the best chances to succeed. Not much different from algorithms used by companies across many fields.

Take away some of the jargon and what Nestor says seems perfectly reasonable. Get the model right and stick to it (including recruitment of players who fit the needs as well as tactics) and you should begin to have success as well as save money (particularly on not wasting money on players who may have qualities but do not suit the model). Recruitment wise, Heggem, Styles and Price seem good acquisitions and Bany may yet prove himself. The problem recruitment was Tony. The Game Model algorithm may have made him third best match but he was the wrong appointment. The data and algorithms are not always right. So why? My own two-penneth:

We use AI and related technology in so many things today but (maybe because I'm old school) I firmly believe that there is an "art" to many of these things as well as a "science". An example from retail-a good old fashioned order writer using a simple three column stock/sales/order pad can produce better results than automated order systems. One of the reasons is because they have experience, particularly when it comes to areas like seasonal fluctuations or post promotional sales forecasts. The scientists amongst you may argue that the algorithms simply need more time to learn these things but I'm not so sure that AI will ever be able to fully replace the human factor.

TM may have met the Game Model's needs based on data around his style of play and success rates in various criteria but maybe it didn't factor in other, more human, aspects. Mowbray is more old school as his early statements about wanting players to "unleash their inner child" and let the brakes off and enjoy themselves more demonstrate. In some ways it is about creativity. Game Models aim at producing a higher degree of guaranteed results and, as they become more refined over time, they get better at this. But however good they get to be, ultimately I feel they can never replace true creativity or flair.

One more example from a different field-scenery for theatre or film. My lad is in this industry and when he first stared, not so long ago, most scenery was still hand painted by very talented individuals. Quite quickly this was increasingly replaced by Photoshop as it saved money. Of course, you still needed skilled individuals to use this technology and it still allowed for creativity. Today, however, AI is increasingly encroaching on this. It learns from analysing thousands of these different Photoshop creations and can generate its own versions negating the need for any human "artist" thus bringing down costs for companies. The same is true for music creation and many other fields. But however widely "read" these algorithms are, and however much better they get, surely they cannot replicate genuine human creativity or flair.

For as long as we have human footballers playing on real pitches rather than robots then we will continue to have the possibilities for creativity and flair (as well as spirit and petulance JM &#128513 but it also makes sticking to Game Models sometimes difficult. If the model is right (and this, of course, includes factoring in financial constraints), then having the discipline to stick to it may well bear results and I don't disagree with much of what Nestor says, but I'll still miss the flair aspect.

Prando is certainly right about the poor timing of releasing this but, as I said, over all I don't disagree with much of what Nestor says. The failing of the club's Game Model was in its selection of Tony, who clearly struggled to adhere to it and was not the right fit. Would he have had better results if allowed the freedom to manage as he wanted ignoring the model? I really don't know but have a suspicion that he may not have done. Regardless, I think it better that he no longer has this pressure on him and wish him all the very best.

[Omegstrat6]

When companies introduce their operational plans and settle on whatever methods they want to achieve their "vision" they don't want to become over dictatorial or stifle all initiatives so often allow their managers what they term "freedom within the framework". I just wonder how much of this freedom Tony was allowed and how much he was expected to adhere to the Game Plan the club had?

Given the constant switching and changing and his predilection for selecting Swift and Diangana, whatever was going on, it seems TM was unsure what his best team selection was and he was clearly increasingly frustrated at the lack of results, as were many players. The moot questions are whether Mowbray's frustrations were directed more at the players or the Game Plan itself and whether the player's increasingly poor performances were down to disillusionment with Tony or with the system the Game Plan demanded of them.

[WBA123]

When companies introduce their operational plans and settle on whatever methods they want to achieve their "vision" they don't want to become over dictatorial or stifle all initiatives so often allow their managers what they term "freedom within the framework". I just wonder how much of this freedom Tony was allowed and how much he was expected to adhere to the Game Plan the club had?

Given the constant switching and changing and his predilection for selecting Swift and Diangana, whatever was going on, it seems TM was unsure what his best team selection was and he was clearly increasingly frustrated at the lack of results, as were many players. The moot questions are whether Mowbray's frustrations were directed more at the players or the Game Plan itself and whether the player's increasingly poor performances were down to disillusionment with Tony or with the system the Game Plan demanded of them.

I'm almost certain he's not being told to pick particular players. But he is probably being leaned on to play the players with more resale value in the future...so the younger players.

But realistically, he played players out of position, such as Price up front. He played Wildsmith for ages. He has been playing players who are out of contract at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure these were all his own calls, and they were clearly mistakes on his part.

[Leicesterbaggie]

I'm almost certain he's not being told to pick particular players. But he is probably being leaned on to play the players with more resale value in the future...so the younger players.

But realistically, he played players out of position, such as Price up front. He played Wildsmith for ages. He has been playing players who are out of contract at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure these were all his own calls, and they were clearly mistakes on his part.

Yes, many of his selections and substitutions appeared strange to us fans. I agree with you that I do not think that he took notice of outside influences in his selections. As I have stated before, on many occasions, I feel that his biggest mistake was chopping and changing so often and not selecting a settled eleven. We all have different opinions as to who should be selected but stick to your opinions and do not keep changing personnel.

[baggiematt]

I'm almost certain he's not being told to pick particular players. But he is probably being leaned on to play the players with more resale value in the future...so the younger players.

But realistically, he played players out of position, such as Price up front. He played Wildsmith for ages. He has been playing players who are out of contract at the end of the season. I'm pretty sure these were all his own calls, and they were clearly mistakes on his part.

Exactly. I could be wrong but I think I?ve read that we need sales this summer to avoid FFP. The club will be targeting high profit sales like Fellows and Maja.

So imagine being the owner/sporting director and watching this new manager leave out your high value, young talented winger each week for players who will be out of contract in the summer?.

I?m sure the club would have tolerated this if we were winning but we weren?t so it was a bit of a sh*t show. So he wasn?t putting the club first or getting performances right.

[WBA123]

Exactly. I could be wrong but I think I?ve read that we need sales this summer to avoid FFP. The club will be targeting high profit sales like Fellows and Maja.

So imagine being the owner/sporting director and watching this new manager leave out your high value, young talented winger each week for players who will be out of contract in the summer?.

I?m sure the club would have tolerated this if we were winning but we weren?t so it was a bit of a sh*t show. So he wasn?t putting the club first or getting performances right.

100%.

I'm glad we've taken such swift action.

[stargazer_1962]

All very studious and business like.
Once every other club does the same, some clubs will have matching models and be after the same players.

He said they look at 3 models.
1. Staying in the championship
2. Going up and staying there
3. Going up and coming back down.

I guess having this business led approach stops them from making rash decisions on players thereby wasting millions.
I wonder if any players from the academy will rise into the first team?
The sooner the start of next season arrives with everything sorted, the better.