OT Andy Burnham

[Omegstrat6]

There are no easy answers Omeg and unlike Trump we have no power over other countries ie tariff manipulation. ECHR ( rewriting legislation) or pulling out would be one way. I know and live by an immigration lawyer who is absolutely minted and here lies the problem. The problem will never be resolved until Judges/Lawyers can overturn any government ruling and the honey which attracts these people is eradicated. Why do these people cross from France to the U.K.? Why do they not want to stay in France? Would they not stay in France if they were given tents here and just hot food with no chance of black market work? Companies who offer black market work ie Uber Eats/Amazon etc should be threatened with huge fines or operating licences withdrawn!

Nobody mentions our homeless people who should be given more of a priority and yes they would love warm shelter and three meals a day, The system is all wrong.

Certainly not wrong in your last comment Al! A whole gamut of our systems and services are failing or broken. These include lack of affordable housing, rising numbers of homelessness and child poverty, the state of the NHS and many associated social services, our public transport system, our education system, our lack of resource when it comes to policing or our judiciary, a broken prison service with laughably poor rehabilitation rates, a hugely under funded military -the list is almost endless and to add into the mix we can throw on top debates around gender or cancel culture/ free speech!

But while illegal immigration certainly adds to the burden felt by all of the above, does anyone seriously believe that it is really the root cause of it all?

Privatization (railways, energy, NHS Trusts, Educational Academies) does not by default mean better services. Sending more young people into higher education than ever before whilst cutting apprenticeship schemes ignores the fact that not everyone is academic nor do they need to be. It does not guarantee that they will get better jobs or that we will have sufficient numbers trained in the actual areas we need them in ( Doctors, vets, IT etc) nor does it improve productivity. A whole fifth of our workforce is foreign born-mostly in either the top paid sectors or the lowest. What does that say about us?

Closing Sure Start centres coupled with the financial need for both parents to work has created a generation where too many have poor parenting skills and who too often abdicate their responsibilities which has led to higher numbers of pre-school children not being toilet trained or with speech and language delays than ever before. Changing cultures within education -not helped by parents pushing for their children's "rights" or the impact of social media-have created a generation where, once entering the workplace, too many have a lax work ethic, view challenges to their performance as "bullying", have difficulty in dealing with confrontation, do not like certain rules and genuinely seem to lack the resilience of previous years. Their level of expectation (fostered by today's ease at being able to purchase things on credit and getting them delivered the next day) is also artificially raised. This does certainly not apply to all young people but it does apply to too many.

The failing of all political parties to oversee the transition from traditional heavy industries (coal, steel, car and ship building, manufacturing) into more modern tech orientated ones and instead turn the country to one predominantly reliant on service industries and the financial sector has only increased the North/South divide and our dependence upon imports. Throughout all this, the divide between rich and poor has grown ever wider. Is all this really down to illegal immigration?

I am most certainly not saying that illegal immigration is not a problem that urgently needs solving Al and I'm in agreement with you that charity should begin at home just as I agree with you that any company that offers black market work should face severe consequences. I'm just saying that it is not the root cause of all our ills and discontent in this country and when people like Farage say that it is, we should then question exactly what other policies they have to help turn things around for the better. Trump has successfully cut illegal immigration but even with his "big beautiful" tariffs, there has been no real improvement in the US economy and life for many of the disillusioned who voted for him has not got any better.

[Omegstrat6]

Apologies for the above long post, must have been having a podcast moment!😁 I'm sure 68 will come along in a bit and correct my course with a well timed interruption👍😂

[Albionic68]

Apologies for the above long post, must have been having a podcast moment!😁 I'm sure 68 will come along in a bit and correct my course with a well timed interruption👍😂

Apologies Omeg but I haven't read it yet I'm afraid. Checked in while cooking the tea, saw another chapter and just thought I'd mention I wouldn't want to live in France either 😆 😄 😀.

[baggieal]

Certainly not wrong in your last comment Al! A whole gamut of our systems and services are failing or broken. These include lack of affordable housing, rising numbers of homelessness and child poverty, the state of the NHS and many associated social services, our public transport system, our education system, our lack of resource when it comes to policing or our judiciary, a broken prison service with laughably poor rehabilitation rates, a hugely under funded military -the list is almost endless and to add into the mix we can throw on top debates around gender or cancel culture/ free speech!

But while illegal immigration certainly adds to the burden felt by all of the above, does anyone seriously believe that it is really the root cause of it all?

Privatization (railways, energy, NHS Trusts, Educational Academies) does not by default mean better services. Sending more young people into higher education than ever before whilst cutting apprenticeship schemes ignores the fact that not everyone is academic nor do they need to be. It does not guarantee that they will get better jobs or that we will have sufficient numbers trained in the actual areas we need them in ( Doctors, vets, IT etc) nor does it improve productivity. A whole fifth of our workforce is foreign born-mostly in either the top paid sectors or the lowest. What does that say about us?

Closing Sure Start centres coupled with the financial need for both parents to work has created a generation where too many have poor parenting skills and who too often abdicate their responsibilities which has led to higher numbers of pre-school children not being toilet trained or with speech and language delays than ever before. Changing cultures within education -not helped by parents pushing for their children's "rights" or the impact of social media-have created a generation where, once entering the workplace, too many have a lax work ethic, view challenges to their performance as "bullying", have difficulty in dealing with confrontation, do not like certain rules and genuinely seem to lack the resilience of previous years. Their level of expectation (fostered by today's ease at being able to purchase things on credit and getting them delivered the next day) is also artificially raised. This does certainly not apply to all young people but it does apply to too many.

The failing of all political parties to oversee the transition from traditional heavy industries (coal, steel, car and ship building, manufacturing) into more modern tech orientated ones and instead turn the country to one predominantly reliant on service industries and the financial sector has only increased the North/South divide and our dependence upon imports. Throughout all this, the divide between rich and poor has grown ever wider. Is all this really down to illegal immigration?

I am most certainly not saying that illegal immigration is not a problem that urgently needs solving Al and I'm in agreement with you that charity should begin at home just as I agree with you that any company that offers black market work should face severe consequences. I'm just saying that it is not the root cause of all our ills and discontent in this country and when people like Farage say that it is, we should then question exactly what other policies they have to help turn things around for the better. Trump has successfully cut illegal immigration but even with his "big beautiful" tariffs, there has been no real improvement in the US economy and life for many of the disillusioned who voted for him has not got any better.

Agree with almost all of your points but rightly or wrongly when taxes rise in November and the cost of living is even more of a struggle - naturally many will blame illegal immigration even more.

You have hit the nail on the head about parenting as usually a child is a product of the parent. Take the UAE it?s a rich country but you get nothing for sitting on your backside - many construction workers from all over work around 14 hours a day there. In life or some countries there are no hand outs. You work or you starve.

One of the biggest problems in this country is the entitlement to benefits. Also the attitude why work if you can get the same on benefits. Pip cases have gone through the roof ( yes there?s many genuine ones obviously ) but it?s easy to con a GP with mental illness or back problems, Many do! They are now looking at stopping benefits if you go on holiday as the passport will detect this. Good as benefits should be for emergency living and not getting
P issed in Magaluf!

With the government turnaround in fuel payments - how many received payments who didn?t need them or were sitting on fat pensions or substantial equity in properties? I know at least two couples who donated their payments to charity! Incredible!

My own kids have good jobs because it was drummed into them a good education sets you up for life. It?s so true. My youngest will get into a top uni ( might even be Oxford ) because of her own merit and working her socks off.

All these illegals whilst being processed should be tagged and earn their shelter/food whether it?s fruit picking - cleaning or whatever. I am sure many would be happy with this otherwise a refusal should be deportation.

In life there?s no such thing as a free lunch but in the U.K. that?s not true because we are too soft.

[Omegstrat6]

Agree with almost all of your points but rightly or wrongly when taxes rise in November and the cost of living is even more of a struggle - naturally many will blame illegal immigration even more.

You have hit the nail on the head about parenting as usually a child is a product of the parent. Take the UAE it?s a rich country but you get nothing for sitting on your backside - many construction workers from all over work around 14 hours a day there. In life or some countries there are no hand outs. You work or you starve.

One of the biggest problems in this country is the entitlement to benefits. Also the attitude why work if you can get the same on benefits. Pip cases have gone through the roof ( yes there?s many genuine ones obviously ) but it?s easy to con a GP with mental illness or back problems, Many do! They are now looking at stopping benefits if you go on holiday as the passport will detect this. Good as benefits should be for emergency living and not getting
P issed in Magaluf!

With the government turnaround in fuel payments - how many received payments who didn?t need them or were sitting on fat pensions or substantial equity in properties? I know at least two couples who donated their payments to charity! Incredible!

My own kids have good jobs because it was drummed into them a good education sets you up for life. It?s so true. My youngest will get into a top uni ( might even be Oxford ) because of her own merit and working her socks off.

All these illegals whilst being processed should be tagged and earn their shelter/food whether it?s fruit picking - cleaning or whatever. I am sure many would be happy with this otherwise a refusal should be deportation.

In life there?s no such thing as a free lunch but in the U.K. that?s not true because we are too soft.

PIP definitely needs an overhaul. I can tell you from experience, that having fought hard enough to get DLA for our youngest who has autism and dystonia that the transition to get him PIP once he had reached that age was very far from straightforward though!

The main problem with PIP is that there are far too few assessors and, of these, far too many are not properly qualified. This allows far too many deserving cases to not be awarded it whilst simultaneously allowing less deserving cases to scam the system. The sheer number of applications these days has resulted too often in the most cursory of assessments with little physical examination and a very broad set of questions for a score card that applicants can too easily find on-line coaching to answer.

As for your last idea that those awaiting asylum processing should be put to work (preferably public service work in my opinion) to help contribute towards their keep, I totally agree with you and doubt that genuine cases would object. Having said that, given the huge costs of keeping someone in prison, I feel the same should be the case there too.

[Omegstrat6]

Apologies Omeg but I haven't read it yet I'm afraid. Checked in while cooking the tea, saw another chapter and just thought I'd mention I wouldn't want to live in France either 😆 😄 😀.

Fair point!😃