O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

Are you for real?

What I am saying is businesses will still go under whether we are a part of the EU or not as has been shown already. FFS man just look at the facts.

Of course businesses would still go under in either scenario. But when you suddenly I interrupt 45 years of established tariff free network, as you've admitted yourself there will be damage. You're convinced it will be sorry term, I dont think so. You and a third of the country are prepared to take that risk to achieve your vision, another third are not. There's no point in debating this further after the last 3 years. It's just a case of where do we go from here.

Good luck with Boris and the further untold damage he will do to us.

[BigLadonOS]

Do you know what makes me laugh more than anything about the remainers after yesterdays results is that the EU elections are done on proportional representation terms (the d'Hondt system) and the leave party won it by a landslide meaning that the Brexit party won with a massive majority but somehow the remainers have taken the result as a moral victory lol.

[ragingpup]

Do you know what makes me laugh more than anything about the remainers after yesterdays results is that the EU elections are done on proportional representation terms (the d'Hondt system) and the leave party won it by a landslide meaning that the Brexit party won with a massive majority but somehow the remainers have taken the result as a moral victory lol.

I think we're just looking at it from a vote share point of view, looking at the numbers who voted hard brexit and the numbers who voted remain. As was the referendum. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry the maths doesn't give you what you want to support your cause. You'll just have to rely on Boris. As I said, good luck..

[BigLadonOS]

I think we're just looking at it from a vote share point of view, looking at the numbers who voted hard brexit and the numbers who voted remain. As was the referendum. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry the maths doesn't give you what you want to support your cause. You'll just have to rely on Boris. As I said, good luck..

OK lets look at numbers. If you take the remain parties numbers before the 2016 referendum IE, Lib Dems, Green party etc you have to take account that those parties were basing there manifesto on issues other than leave or remain.

You can only take into account the gains made by those parties when adding remain to it. IE without remain as part of its manifesto this time how would they have done? Would the Lib Dems have no votes? would the green party have no votes? would any other remain party have had no votes?

What you are saying is that every vote made for those remain parties was for remain only and that is not the truth. There are many reasons why the Green party voted Green and not only because of the remain vote. The 2 parties that stood for the leave or remain campaign and nothing else the remain party got obliterated by the Brexit party it is that simple. We know for a fact that the Brexit party voters voted on leave and the Lib Dems voted on remain the rest is down to assumption. The party that won the head to head for leave or remain only was the BREXIT PARTY BY A MARGIN OF 12% it is as simple as that.

[ragingpup]

They've taken the Tories out of the Leave bar to make it look like there was a majority for Remain.

And an the bottom of the page they have "Why you can trust BBC News"

You can't count the tories as leave. Or remain. If you did, you'd have to take the Labour voters as Leave as ipso facto, most Labour voters voted for remain. And that would make your disappointing stats look even worse. Sorry

[great_fire]

You can't count the tories as leave. Or remain. If you did, you'd have to take the Labour voters as Leave as ipso facto, most Labour voters voted for remain. And that would make your disappointing stats look even worse. Sorry

I would have thought that most Remain-supporting Labour voters will have voted for the Lib Dems or Green Party though, like Alastair Campbell did. Labour were and at this point anyway, still on the fence, the Tories support leave but we don't know if that if with a deal or not.

Turnout was higher in Remain areas, many Brexit supporters didn't vote as they didn't see the point/ thought we should have already left.

[animallittle3]

Are you saying that these businesses only went to the wall because of the EU? Are you saying that businesses won't go to the wall once we have left the EU?

The issue is that much current businesses are 45 years established with eu links as our closest neighbours, and that the end result of suddenly ending those trade arrangements is an unnecessary one with insufficient benefits. Im not an ardent remainer, was willing to comprise but its becoming increasingly apparent that with two extremes unfeeling to compromise, then many of us in the middle will be forced to choose sides in an all our nothing struggle that will run for a generation. Pathetic on both sides, including my family!

There never was any middle ground raging as defined by the referendum ballot paper .

I've tried the middle ground route myself earlier in this process but the middle ground is as easier to solve as it is to find the proverbial needle in the haystack so as a leaver it's best to give it up , no fecker else is giving an inch so why should I .

The only middle ground still doing the rounds at this stage is the one hijacked by parliament , democracy deniers and remainers who couldn't take the defeat .

The real power and clout is about to be transferred to the hard brexiteers both in our own parliament and Brussels .

This is a consequence of middle ground fecking about , democracy deniers and remainers who seem to believe losing a referendum somehow constitutes a replay with extra time and penalties if needed to overturn it .

I will tick every box necessary in the Farage camp to ensure we leave the EU , whatever it takes .

The Labour Party may want to position themselves to accept our departure from the EU on WTO terms and wake up to where today's tunes are getting played .

Globalisation kills the working class and one arm around unskilled Johnny Foreigner isn't a great image .

If they want to see power anytime soon they'd better accept that and wake up to the fact London is only a part of the UK and not the be all and end all .

The working class don't give a shyte about refugees from war torn country's or Polish migrants whilst working their puds off for buttons an hour at Amazon and visiting a foodbank to feed themselves .

Yes it's a harsh viewpoint but it's also a FACT outside the metropolitan bubble where the losers of globalisation reside .

The very people they should be looking out for and were founded to do so .

[wendun]

Animal, if I thought that by leaving we could escape the adverse consequences of globalisation I'd vote leave like a shot. I don't like free movement, I don't like immigration and I don't like Labour supporting a new definition of Islamophobia which will basically stop anyone criticising any aspect of Islam and make the current protests in Birmingham the norm in many aspects of our life. But Farage and the Tories don't care about the workers. They want a low wage, low tax, low protection economy with a Welfare State cut to the bone. Well that's my fear anyway. We'll probably soon find out.

[animallittle3]

A little bit unfair on Corbyn animal. He had no chance of ever really negotiating with the waste of space May.

That aside BigLad opposing the worst two PM's in history on an austerity ticket and the debacle that is brexit they should be 20 points minimum in front of the Cons in the opinion polls .

If you can't win under those circumstances then you ain't ever going to win .

[BigLadonOS]

That aside BigLad opposing the worst two PM's in history on an austerity ticket and the debacle that is brexit they should be 20 points minimum in front of the Cons in the opinion polls .

If you can't win under those circumstances then you ain't ever going to win .

I agree with you animal but in a slightly softer way than what you are saying. I agree than Labour have made a complete hash of Brexit. I also agree that the Labour party did not make it clear enough as to where they stood but if they can get their act together in time for a GE I think they will still be one of the big parties and will get votes on a massive scale depending on what way they go on Brexit.