Match Thread vs. Torquay United 09.04.22 [NL]

[durhampie]

There isn’t a football club in the world that plays in an unpredictable way. You don’t need analysts to tell you how a team plays.
There are too many variables to simply say, our style didn’t or doesn’t work and we should adapt. Watch Man City v Liverpool today. Everyone whose seen them play before knows how they play, and they will play the same way today.
IB was hugely critical of the work rate yesterday. Of the way we didn’t battle. The way we simply didn’t compete. That’s not tactics. It’s not even the managers fault. It’s the players. They clearly think they are better than what they are and didn’t do the simple things close to that expected of them.
I know there will be those who say IB picked the team. He picked the same team that’s done well in recent weeks.
My only real concern is whether that performance yesterday was the players way of showing support to Cal? Assuming there is an issue.

The problem we had yesterday is that we just couldn't pass the ball to our own man. Our movement off the ball was none existent, and we just didn't seem to want to win the game...Whilst the Torquay manager was bleating out instructions throughout, ours just stood there like a spare pri*k at a wedding...

[matt_magpie]

Sounds like IB hit the nail on the head, players had done a lot of the hard work and thought they could just turn up yesterday, very foolish when you’re playing a Gary Johnson team. Get a bit of one the earlier posts about IB being passive but as a professional footballer you have to do it for urself, if u need a boot up the a5se then senior pros and staff should step up, Wenger was passive and he didn’t do too bad, can’t all be on IB.

[keldsyke]

Sounds like IB hit the nail on the head, players had done a lot of the hard work and thought they could just turn up yesterday, very foolish when you’re playing a Gary Johnson team. Get a bit of one the earlier posts about IB being passive but as a professional footballer you have to do it for urself, if u need a boot up the a5se then senior pros and staff should step up, Wenger was passive and he didn’t do too bad, can’t all be on IB.

You’re right it can’t all be on IB and although I think it’s perhaps a generational thing / age as well there was enough experience on the pitch to motivate players.

I thought the Solihull pre season friendly really showed the difference between IB and NA when Rawlinson (I think) was sent off early on. Immediately NA was at the ref in his ear telling him he needed to reverse the decision as it was a friendly and they needed to play 11 v 11 while IB looked on like a very wet weekend saying and looking lost doing nothing. Ironically and defending IB too, I would have thought Doyle wouldn’t be shy in coming forward and saying what needed to be said when the chips are down.

The other interesting thing is how RR’s attitude has changed this season too, he always seems very frustrated and IMO has been very fortunate not to have been booked more ir even sent off due to petulance. Someone earlier about us missing Cameron’s leadership, but there is enough there with Rawlinson, Chiksen, Palmer, Arter etc so lead on the pitch.

[jackal2]

Sounds like IB hit the nail on the head, players had done a lot of the hard work and thought they could just turn up yesterday, very foolish when you’re playing a Gary Johnson team. Get a bit of one the earlier posts about IB being passive but as a professional footballer you have to do it for urself, if u need a boot up the a5se then senior pros and staff should step up, Wenger was passive and he didn’t do too bad, can’t all be on IB.

IB's post-match interview worried me just a little bit in that he fell back - again - on words to the effect of 'the players didn't implement Plan A well enough'. After the Chesterfield game the words were that they weren't brave enough on the ball and clinical in front of goal. After the Stockport game he basically said that half the team was ill. And yesterday he effectively said they turned up with the wrong attitude.

I'm not saying there isn't a considerable degree of truth in all of these observations, but is IB also looking at himself in the mirror in the same way?

After three heavy defeats against decent teams who play a certain way, is he recognising that Plan A itself has not worked for these games, with the intricate passing game effectively falling apart when we're put under intense pressure? This is no longer a one-off occurrence but a repeated flaw in games away from home. I don't think it's good enough for IB simply to say the reason we lost is that the players didn't implement the plan well enough. That has just a whiff of arrogance, stubbornness or delusion about it.

To be fair, not everything managers say in post match interviews reveal what they really think. I can see why you wouldn't admit to an audience of thousands, probably including your next opponents, that there may be a significant tactical flaw in your game. These are discussions that need to take place in the dressing room and on the training pitch. I hope however that behind the scenes and in his own mind, IB realises that the way he has us playing does leave us vulnerable to collapse away from home, and that he does have some culpability for this. At the very least he needs to tweak our approach away from home to ensure we don't bring unnecessary pressure upon yourselves in hostile opposition stadia. It's not good enough just to conclude that the players weren't at it and the result would have been different if they were. There is a more fundamental problem that needs addressing, especially if we make the play-offs where we will face this situation again.

[durhampie]

IB's post-match interview worried me just a little bit in that he fell back - again - on words to the effect of 'the players didn't implement Plan A well enough'. After the Chesterfield game the words were that they weren't brave enough on the ball and clinical in front of goal. After the Stockport game he basically said that half the team was ill. And yesterday he effectively said they turned up with the wrong attitude.

I'm not saying there isn't a considerable degree of truth in all of these observations, but is IB also looking at himself in the mirror in the same way?

After three heavy defeats against decent teams who play a certain way, is he recognising that Plan A itself has not worked for these games, with the intricate passing game effectively falling apart when we're put under intense pressure? This is no longer a one-off occurrence but a repeated flaw in games away from home, and I don't think it's good enough for IB simply to say the reason we lost is that the players didn't implement the plan well enough. That has just a whiff of arrogance, stubbornness or delusion about it.

To be fair, not everything managers say in post match interviews reveal what they really think. I can see why you wouldn't admit to an audience of thousands, probably including your next opponents, that there may be a significant tactical flaw in your game. These are discussions that need to take place in the dressing room and on the training pitch. I hope however that behind the scenes and in his own mind, IB realises that the way he has us playing does leave us vulnerable to collapse away from home, and that he does have some culpability for this. At the very least he needs to tweak our approach away from home to ensure we don't bring unnecessary pressure upon yourselves in hostile opposition stadia. It's not good enough just to conclude that the players weren't at it and the result would have been different if they were. There is a more fundamental problem that needs addressing, especially if we make the play-offs where we will face this situation again.

I agree with all of that, but as far tweaking the approach away from home you may as well be talking to a brick wall..

[jackal2]

I agree with all of that, but as far tweaking the approach away from home you may as well be talking to a brick wall..

I hope not. I hope that whatever he says for PR purposes in public, IB privately recognises that we can't always rely on passing teams off the park. I don't ask or expect him to admit this in public, but I hope the internal learning from the Chesterfield, Stockport and Torquay defeats becomes self-evident in future games against the better sides.

[durhampie]

I hope not. I hope that whatever he says for PR purposes in public, IB privately recognises that we can't always rely on passing teams off the park. I don't ask or expect him to admit this in public, but I hope the internal learning from the Chesterfield, Stockport and Torquay defeats becomes self-evident in future games against the better sides.

You only have to look at all of the miniscule players we have signed to realise that we are never going to have the physicality to out bully any of those teams..

[jackal2]

You only have to look at all of the miniscule players we have signed to realise that we are never going to have the physicality to out bully any of those teams..

Ideally we would have a couple more physically big and imposing players, but any professional player can be asked not to overplay in defence or midfield. In fact that's easier than playing an overly intricate style. It's not a case of playing long ball, but simply getting the ball out of your own half in fewer passes than we tend to do at present, playing over the press if necessary. We do have some big forwards to hit if we need them.

People forget that the 'physical' team of Neil Warnock (for example) was not built around particularly tall or strong players apart from the two centre-halves Short and Yates. The likes of Mark Draper, Dean Thomas, Phil Turner, Paul Harding and Charlie Palmer were not physically huge players, but they got in the opposition's faces, weren't afraid to 'leave one' on their opponents, and they played their more sophisticated football in the opponent's half not their own. It's just common sense football for the lower levels where you don't have players with the sublime skill of, say, Manchester City.

[BanjoPie]

I would just like IB to show a little more passion and even a bit of ‘tempered anger’

[durhampie]

Oh, how we could do for a Phil Turner and Paul Harding in our side.