O/T Coronavirus Thread (3)

[mikemiller]

On a bit of a sidetrack for anyone interested in such things, might it be time for the Labour party to stop identifying with the term 'socialist'? Although I understand why members use it, I think the term has become so tainted by associations with communist and extreme socialist regimes that have nothing to do with the social democracy that I think of when I hear the word. It's been so tainted by mass hysteria aha distortion against the word over the years that I think the voting public see even a social democrat using the word as holding extremist views. If even relatively bright people like Kerr can't distinguish between the Labour offer in recent manifestos and Venezuela and Russia under a completely different economic model, how can the party expect to convince average public that they are social democrats, and only really opposing deregulated market forces?

And I always cringe when party members address each other as 'comrades'. Noooooo. Maybe we have to get away from these labels? Just a thought. Back under my stone now.

So you want the Labour Party to be the Tory Blair Party mark II? No thanks.

Kerr is an obvious fake character and wind up merchant. Who cares what he thinks? You would be mad take him seriously. For example he claims to have represented "Left wingers" in court. You can choose who you like as our legal representative in court - would any "Left winger" choose a red-baiting Tory to represent them? Obviously they wouldn't.
Also he is very careful not to mention the exact nature of his job. For example, claiming to be a barrister when you are not qualified is a jailable offence - his legal knowledge does stretch that far, but probably doesn't go much beyond that. Will his ego gets carried away and lead to a mistake?

[John2]

In essence, they felt that they had been marginalised, discounted and scoffed at by their political leaders for too long and saw Trump as addressing that. Whether they were right or wrong, I wouldn’t like to say, but I detected nothing about them to cause me to question their intelligence. Indeed, I think part of the issue that they had was that they were tired of being treated as lacking in intelligence by a politicians who ‘knew best’.

The Labour Party has spent the last five years dismissing anyone who didn’t buy into their project as morally inferior and lacking in intelligence. Unfortunately, for them that included a significant number of their traditional support who got the chance to respond last December. You should reflect on that, John.

All of this is true, your sample size of 2 people may be highly intelligent, as are many Trump voters.

These people may be right to feel marginalised, the haven't been listened to, the political system has failed them.

Observing the cognitive decline in America may not be helpful, it may offend, patronise and even make the problem worse.

None of this prevents it being true though. Having spent a fair amount of time there, I see huge failings in the education system, and a huge failing in the way information is transmitted and interpreted. This creates real world problems that have real implications. Donald Trump is a consequence of this decline.

[ragingpup]

So you want the Labour Party to be the Tory Blair Party mark II? No thanks.

Kerr is an obvious fake character and wind up merchant. Who cares what he thinks? You would be mad take him seriously. For example he claims to have represented "Left wingers" in court. You can choose who you like as our legal representative in court - would any "Left winger" choose a red-baiting Tory to represent them? Obviously they wouldn't.
Also he is very careful not to mention the exact nature of his job. For example, claiming to be a barrister when you are not qualified is a jailable offence - his legal knowledge does stretch that far, but probably doesn't go much beyond that. Will his ego gets carried away and lead to a mistake?

I want the Labour Party to be electable, and I think it is increasingly harder to become so when the let terms we use are distorted and misunderstood by the voting public. Right or wrong, when most voters hear of a prospective socialist government, they think of Russia, China and Venezuela and in my experience is a voter turn off. Any why would we want to turn voters off by 'labels'. The policies are what matters.

I personally don't think Kerr is phony. I think he is genuinely disaffected right wing of the party. And if you read the recent leak on how the senior leaders of the PLP sought to undermine Corbyn over his leadership, his own extremist vitriol comes over quite authentic. But I think the time has come on the Labour Party to get behind a unification person and I hope that Starmer can do that. From my reading and talking, the left of the party (although prob not extremists) have been guardedly grown up about Starmer and want to see him do well, much more than you can say for the dispiacable, shameful antics of the right since 2015. But we have to put that behind us now and pull together. I don't want a Blair part 2 replica if our policies can be both more radical and credible at the same time, but I want us to learn from the defeats in the last 10 years with different offers (not just the left under Corbyn) and regroup. As part of this I don't feel any need to cling on to terms that make whatever policy offer we put out in an immediate negative light (although I agree that any perceived threat to wealth will always be distorted by the media on the behalf of their paymasters). Just have to find ways of boxing cleverer than them, and if that means prioritising policies, so be it in my opinion. We can't do owt from the outside

[Pattylallacks2]

Sorry, wrong thread - I thought this was about Coronavirus

[rolymiller]

Have you not noticed Kerrs habit when he is challenged on a subject that he can't or won't answer he disappears for 12 /24 hours before he responds with his newly researched Google bites Quite a regular habit & as for his Labour side swipes another regular habit for someone who has voted Labour countless times since 1983

I like to label him as Mr Inconsistent whoever he is... (Whoops he dunt like labels )

[rolymiller]

Just for you patti

Asked whether there was any chance of people being able to play sport outside this summer, Mr Raab said this would be "very difficult because of the level and scale of interaction".

But he added: "I think the professional sport may be different because of the scale of testing that they would be able to introduce."


Maybe we will be kicking off again with the millers soon but it suggests to me it will behind closed doors...

[rolymiller]

All of this is true, your sample size of 2 people may be highly intelligent, as are many Trump voters.

These people may be right to feel marginalised, the haven't been listened to, the political system has failed them.

Observing the cognitive decline in America may not be helpful, it may offend, patronise and even make the problem worse.

None of this prevents it being true though. Having spent a fair amount of time there, I see huge failings in the education system, and a huge failing in the way information is transmitted and interpreted. This creates real world problems that have real implications. Donald Trump is a consequence of this decline.

I would assume that the jet set world of Mr kerr and the yanks he meets in them on holidays are hardly ever likely to be owt else but republican supporters anyway. They probably always vote for the republican party but are disillusioned that it aint right wing enough! (A bit like Mr Kerr's world by the way his lifestyle nails him on as a Tory)... why would an international jet setter be owt else..? if he had met two office cleaners on his travels their views would probably be totally different but then again of course he would not meet those types of people on jet set holidays...

Bet kerr dunt meet many Labour supporters on hol!

(I've just made a mental note about what his reply will be to this comment-I will see if I'm reight- even tho I know it will be bollax)...

[rolymiller]

Also he is very careful not to mention the exact nature of his job. For example, claiming to be a barrister when you are not qualified is a jailable offence -

Wow! Didn't know that mikemiller...lets hope he is aware of that fact...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-7585887.html

I think as long as millersmadsters take him with a pinch o salt and not believe what he says too much as i have come to do, they will be ok.

[ragingpup]

Sorry, wrong thread - I thought this was about Coronavirus

Sorry, I did say it was a bit of a digression when I posted but seeing as the 's' word keeps getting raised...

[rolymiller]

I want the Labour Party to be electable, and I think it is increasingly harder to become so when the let terms we use are distorted and misunderstood by the voting public. Right or wrong, when most voters hear of a prospective socialist government, they think of Russia, China and Venezuela and in my experience is a voter turn off. Any why would we want to turn voters off by 'labels'. The policies are what mat

I consider myself to be left of the Labour party but have never in 62 years ever associated the word Socialism with Russia or china etc. What has happened there is not remotely owt to do with socialism, state capitalism perhaps which is an entirely different matter.This is just a label given to labour by the right wing press to scare voters from voting for them at elections.

I have always seen socialism as a modern progressive doctrine.

I have lived through a number of Labour govts and not one has remotely acted like the repressive ones in Russia and China. The only ones that have have been the more right wing versions. I would challenge anyone on here to sincerely compare any Lab govt we have had with the Stalinist and Maoist regimes...Load of bollax... and ignorant people need to read up on socialism and understand what it really means...

Do you really think that socialists in this country are fighting to live in a repressive regime. Why on earth would they do that? I certainly don't want to live in a stalinist state...