⚽ Match Thread vs. Dover Athletic [NL]

[Elite_Pie]

That doesn't say to me we have no chance in the play offs like some seem to be suggesting. It says to me we have AS GOOD A CHANCE as anyone given our recent form.

I see both options as a bit silly. Saying we have no chance in the playoffs is silly, because if we get there we obviously have a chance. I also think that seeing as our best placing looks to be fifth, I find saying we have "as good chance as anyone" is equally silly. I try and avoid extreme views like those two. As someone has often said, #balancenotbias.

[Elite_Pie]

As it stands, and remains likely, we will only have one away game to face. Like Fylde did, like Borehamwood did, and Like Hartlepool did.

Yes, and more others didn't.

You've told me you're not a bookie, are you a cherry picker by any chance?

[JonahBabb14]

Yes, and more others didn't.

You've told me you're not a bookie, are you a cherry picker by any chance?

Haha. No, but my glass is more than half full!!

[Elite_Pie]

Of course criticism is allowed, although I disagree with most of it. This board is a mix of people who normally see things in a positive light and those who see it in a negative, I get that. However, you don’t see anyone who is generally positive stating that we’ll definitely get promoted, yet on the flip side it’s constantly stated that we can’t win the playoffs.
15 games ago it was a ‘fact’ that we wouldn’t even make the playoffs, or at best we’d scrape in.
Then you’ve got the constant criticism of the players/manager. Again, I don’t agree with most of it but it’s the claims that ‘his heads been turned’ or he doesn’t care’ that I just can’t understand. Apparently we’ve now got a manager that can brainwash players to only pass sideways, and gets angry when we score an ugly goal! It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it. That’s what I’m mainly referring to when I say get behind the team.
And all these comments are coming as we’ve won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 10 games.

Good reply, thanks for that. I think you are getting a bit confused by terming occasional criticism as "constant criticism".

On boards like this one you will always get posters who think we've lost if we go 1-0 down, and posters who see nothing but a bright future. I hope the latter group have got it right. If you look for negatives you will definitely find them, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks that way.

[matt_magpie]

Of course criticism is allowed, although I disagree with most of it. This board is a mix of people who normally see things in a positive light and those who see it in a negative, I get that. However, you don’t see anyone who is generally positive stating that we’ll definitely get promoted, yet on the flip side it’s constantly stated that we can’t win the playoffs.
15 games ago it was a ‘fact’ that we wouldn’t even make the playoffs, or at best we’d scrape in.
Then you’ve got the constant criticism of the players/manager. Again, I don’t agree with most of it but it’s the claims that ‘his heads been turned’ or he doesn’t care’ that I just can’t understand. Apparently we’ve now got a manager that can brainwash players to only pass sideways, and gets angry when we score an ugly goal! It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it. That’s what I’m mainly referring to when I say get behind the team.
And all these comments are coming as we’ve won 7 and drawn 1 of our last 10 games.

Totally agree with a lot of that. There was a lot of criticism of the team Monday but lets face it Dovers tactics didn’t make it for a good game. They sat back for 80 mins even when losing, there was absolutely no point launching it / going direct when they literally most of the time had all 11 players in their last third, they had a numerical advantage in winning the first and second balls so it was better taking the ball to them and try and work it through the gaps. There wasn’t any other option and unless you get the 2nd quickly their not going to come out any earlier. It’s going to be totally different in the playoffs, yes their going to press us but also we are going to have a lot more space, if we have Brindley and Cameron back and get near our peak we can beat anyone, all ifs though.

[jackal2]

You might be right about 'a lot of' Notts fans...but for me my biggest annoyance watching my teams over the years (Notts, England) has always been players giving the ball away cheaply. And I absolutely hate it when this happens and the other side dominates the ball.
Yes, you can understand risk/reward when some ambitious passes don't come off - but careless stray passes, hopeful punts into nowhere, and overhit balls to their keeper drive me nuts.

Didn't go to the Dover games but I can well imagine being annoyed by 1) poor execution - final balls/finishing 2) the league position which demanded we boost our goal difference for that all-important play-off placing.

I would've been mega-frustrated but there's no way I would want a return to 'direct' football

Two things I've already said but I'll reiterate to avoid any misunderstanding:

1. I'm not calling for IB's head, just for a more flexible style of play
2. I'm not calling for 'direct' football of the type played by, say, Steve Thompson.

I've always thought it was a bit of a myth that Warnock and Allardyce were long-ball merchants, because they really weren't. Their teams were very physical and intense and they tended to get the ball out of their own half with relatively few passes, but I remember seeing Notts play some exhilarating attacking (passing) football under those managers. In essence they mixed up their play, sometimes using the height and physicality of players like Dave Regis and Sean Farrell, but also taking advantage of the guile of players like Gary Lund, Mark Draper, Dean Thomas, Steve Finnan, Mark Robson and Gary Jones. They also both made good use of battlers like Paul Harding and Shaun Derry. The reason the teams with these players were so successful is because they had the tools to vary their approach to combat all types of opponent.

The problem with IB's style of play, to date, is that they ONLY seem to be able to play one way i.e. a build from the back passing game. Sometimes it works well, but in other games we get bullied into submission (too easily) or smothered by the tactics our opponents adopt. We never seem to have a Plan B, let alone C. Anticlough has previously suggested that IB cannot vary the style because he has too many players of the same type, and to a degree I think that's true, but I suspect there's also an element of stubbornness from the manager. IB only seems to show any emotion on the sideline when the players break from the 'tippy-tappy' model, for instance by shooting from distance or playing a longer ball rather than trying to pass the ball into the net. In his book, this is 'forcing the play' and 'risking losing possession', but sometimes these risks are worth taking for the potential reward.

Whatever the reason for our one-dimensional approach, I think Burchnall's play-off hopes and his long-term relationship with Notts fans will depend on whether he can introduce more variety, intensity and aggression into our play, not only to give us a better chance of grinding out results against different types of opposition, but also because a lot of Notts supporters don't want to see our side looking 'nice'. Remember, we're the unfashionable club who used to delight in running over teams with a big ego and a soft underbelly.

A lot of football managers seem to think that all fans want to see now is football played like Manchester City or Barcelona, but the truth is that a lot of us still want an element of blood and guts. Apart from a goal, nothing excites crowds more than a crunching tackle and seeing their players getting right in their opponent's faces. Too often under IB we appear to play passive, mid-to-low tempo football in front of our opponents rather than getting it in the mixers on the floor or in the air.

For most people I genuinely don't think it's cry of 'Burchnall out'. I think it's a plea of 'Burchnall adapt'.

[Elite_Pie]

They sat back for 80 mins even when losing, there was absolutely no point launching it / going direct when they literally most of the time had all 11 players in their last third, they had a numerical advantage in winning the first and second balls so it was better taking the ball to them and try and work it through the gaps.

So if they had 11 players in the last third, where were the gaps? There weren't any because our pedestrian approach play gave them loads of time to fill the gaps and make sure everyone was marked. I think that's what frustrated so many, we never tried any variation. A few early balls to Wootton might have caused them a few problems but we never gave it a go, leaving Wootton anonymous.

Edit: Just read jackal's reply, and he explains what I'm trying to say better than I did.

[laddo]

Good debate this

If anyone uses the phrase "occasional criticism" and "NCM" in the same sentence and doesn't include the phrase "rarely seen or doesn't happen" needs their heads shaking or blinkers removing. This place can be a cauldron of negativity at times, pitchforks well and truly out, overreactions aplenty. That's fine some people love the melodrama, love to moan especially after a defeat or even when we are losing 1-1 at HT.

KTD's recent post is a thing of beauty but should be removed from NCM immediately as he's far too accurate with his assessment of the board. Summed up perfectly with this doozy "It’s just throw away negative BS being said for the sake of it." Like I say some people like to be negative, like to moan. As a Notts fan let's be honest it's low hanging fruit and easy pickings.

Warnock and Allardyce to me were direct, not long ball or even worse aimless punts. Not even close. They were great managers , and they were over 20 and 30 years ago.


Slightly annoyed with Jackal for mentioning Steve Thompson's reign as manager but luckily I swallowed the sick back down almost instantly. Still likely to give me nightmares if I think about that period too long lol.

Jackal's plea for a manager to adapt is very much a valid one , it's obvious to me IB needs to adapt more than he has done. But again this is nothing new sooooo many managers we had needed to adapt to gain more success than they achieved but managers tend to be stubborn , have huge self belief in their approach and principles and that's to be expected and in part admired no matter how frustrating it can be for the fans. Us fans have HUGE obvious advantages over any Notts manager but that seems to be forgotten or ignored by too many no matter how much of amateur expert they are or claim to be.

As for our chances in the playoffs whether viewed statistically, from a bookies odds point of view, or as a Notts fan/supporter I don't fancy our chances. Just my opinion.

But we have a chance, we are in the playoffs once again when many experts continued to predict defeats and us not even reaching the playoffs (which would have been disastrous and unacceptable) during the great form we've been in the last 10 games as highlighted above, but it was never gonna happen. Let's be honest it's never looked like happening all season.

[uysapie]

Two things I've already said but I'll reiterate to avoid any misunderstanding:

1. I'm not calling for IB's head, just for a more flexible style of play
2. I'm not calling for 'direct' football of the type played by, say, Steve Thompson.

I've always thought it was a bit of a myth that Warnock and Allardyce were long-ball merchants, because they really weren't. Their teams were very physical and intense and they tended to get the ball out of their own half with relatively few passes, but I remember seeing Notts play some exhilarating attacking (passing) football under those managers. In essence they mixed up their play, sometimes using the height and physicality of players like Dave Regis and Sean Farrell, but also taking advantage of the guile of players like Gary Lund, Mark Draper, Dean Thomas, Steve Finnan, Mark Robson and Gary Jones. They also both made good use of battlers like Paul Harding and Shaun Derry. The reason the teams with these players were so successful is because they had the tools to vary their approach to combat all types of opponent.

The problem with IB's style of play, to date, is that they ONLY seem to be able to play one way i.e. a build from the back passing game. Sometimes it works well, but in other games we get bullied into submission (too easily) or smothered by the tactics our opponents adopt. We never seem to have a Plan B, let alone C. Anticlough has previously suggested that IB cannot vary the style because he has too many players of the same type, and to a degree I think that's true, but I suspect there's also an element of stubbornness from the manager. IB only seems to show any emotion on the sideline when the players break from the 'tippy-tappy' model, for instance by shooting from distance or playing a longer ball rather than trying to pass the ball into the net. In his book, this is 'forcing the play' and 'risking losing possession', but sometimes these risks are worth taking for the potential reward.

Whatever the reason for our one-dimensional approach, I think Burchnall's play-off hopes and his long-term relationship with Notts fans will depend on whether he can introduce more variety, intensity and aggression into our play, not only to give us a better chance of grinding out results against different types of opposition, but also because a lot of Notts supporters don't want to see our side looking 'nice'. Remember, we're the unfashionable club who used to delight in running over teams with a big ego and a soft underbelly.

A lot of football managers seem to think that all fans want to see now is football played like Manchester City or Barcelona, but the truth is that a lot of us still want an element of blood and guts. Apart from a goal, nothing excites crowds more than a crunching tackle and seeing their players getting right in their opponent's faces. Too often under IB we appear to play passive, mid-to-low tempo football in front of our opponents rather than getting it in the mixers on the floor or in the air.

For most people I genuinely don't think it's cry of 'Burchnall out'. I think it's a plea of 'Burchnall adapt'.

Succinctly put.

[jackal2]

Slightly annoyed with Jackal for mentioning Steve Thompson's reign as manager but luckily I swallowed the sick back down almost instantly. Still likely to give me nightmares if I think about that period too long lol.

Yes I'm sorry. Still too soon. The pain is still raw!